Andy: Hello, space policy enthusiasts. Welcome to the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast. My name is Andy Williams and I'm the Director of Science in Space, a niche space policy consultancy firm. On this podcast, we'll talk to leading space policy experts and hear their informative and inspirational career stories to help you, the listener, learn about the different career paths in space policy and the skills you need to be successful.
If you enjoy this podcast, please help us by leaving a five star rating on your favorite podcast platform and sign up for more information and career resources at www.scienceinspace.co.uk. One final note before we begin, all guests are talking in their personal capacity and are not representing any official position of their former or current employing organization.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not legal or investment advice.
Our guest today is Sarah Parker, a Senior Policy Advisor for the Canadian Space Agency. Welcome to the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast, Sarah.
Sarah Parker: Thank you so much. I am so happy to be here and just really excited about your initiative.
Andy: Excellent, thank you. So, Sarah, you started out your career working for the Canadian government in defence, and then around 2017 you became Senior Policy Advisor, working on the topic of defence space policy. Was this a role that you specifically sought out, or was it a serendipitous opportunity that emerged? Were you specifically looking for a career in space?
Sarah Parker: You know, it was really a bit of both. I've always been absolutely fascinated by space and wanted to work in space somehow. As a kid, I was dead set on being an astronaut. I did rocket camp and I dragged my parents to observatories on their open days. But then as an adult who didn't go into science or engineering, I had no idea what a career in space could look like.
So all that to say, I had been looking for an opportunity to work in space for some time. But as you mentioned, I had entered government on a different path and in the defense sphere. But then around 2016, a timely opportunity arose when I was looking for a change of pace. And up to that point, I had been working pretty high tempo operational jobs supporting the military.
And then this opportunity opened to work on the policy development role and specifically on space. And what really attracted me to that opportunity was to work in a policy area that was and is in many ways still emerging, which meant a real opportunity to have a direct impact on policy development and government priorities, which I noted earlier on in my career can be really rare.
So, I think, in answer to your question, it was a bit of both.
Andy: So in terms of being attracted to a policy role, you said it was like the opportunity to have an impact. I found that it's quite a common feeling and that's a driver for why people are wanting to go in and to this field to be able to have an impact on what's happening in government and the sort of overall perspective of the sector.
Sarah Parker: Yeah, exactly.
Andy: So what happened after that? Can you walk us through your career since this first space role?
Sarah Parker: yeah, sure. So I worked in this policy development role for just over two years. My work is really on drafting and then implementing the defense space policy, which was a really fascinating opportunity. To work closely with stakeholders across defense, particularly after the policy was released, and we moved towards the implementation phase.
And so during that time, I developed a network of space policy people across the federal government. And including connections with the team that led the defense space enterprise. And it looked to me like they were doing some really cool work in really novel fields. And I was fortunately offered the opportunity to come across to that team as the first civilian deputy director of space strategy and plans.
And that was a really interesting role because of the fusion of the work that I had been doing previously with international partners. But this time in a more operational domain and then also this longer term planning for the space enterprise. And so by this time, honestly, I was totally hooked on space.
And while there were a couple of small detours, I knew that I wanted to keep working on space issues over the long term. It was really interesting and dynamic work within defense and a fantastic group of people that I was able to work with both on that team and across government. Everyone really liked what they did.
And this is rare, like coming to work every day with a bunch of people who are really excited and motivated about what they do. It was absolutely a fantastic opportunity.
Andy: So you didn't really have a background in space policy or law. So how did you prepare for these roles and actually gain the backgrounds that you needed to know about the space sector?
Sarah Parker: Yeah, you're absolutely correct. Beyond my childhood enthusiasm in terms of preparation in the beginning, it was very much on the job learning and job shadowing those who were more senior on the team, and honestly, a lot of it was through osmosis. I also had the opportunity to undertake in-person and online training offered by the department to better understand space operations.
And frankly, I also spent a lot of my own time reading up. So academic articles, industry publications, just generally things about space in the news. I find that the learning process is a lot faster when you genuinely like or are interested in what you're doing professionally. And through that time, I found so many interesting areas and nuances within space policy that I really didn't anticipate when I took on the role.
Andy: So I think it's something about working in a government and civil service position. I mean, we often find that they don't select people because of their background knowledge. They're selecting on certain competencies and skills. So I think in the civil service, it's in some ways, it's kind of easier to transition into the space sector in that regard.
Whereas typically in industry, you might find that having a prior background in the sector kind of puts you at the top of the pile. Is that something that you've, that you find in the Canadian system?
Sarah Parker: Yeah, I think you're absolutely correct. I think in a lot of ways, that's, fairly universal in that the balance of space knowledge versus general understanding of the government is can shift. Over time as well, though, I think the more you become experienced on space, the more that starts to shift particularly in my case you start to really specialize in it.
Andy: Yeah. Okay, so in a policy role there's often a kind of balance between, you know, having a particular knowledge about the space sector that you're dealing with versus generally knowing how government work and how to operate in a government role. So could you talk about that distinction?
Sarah Parker: yeah, sure. When I started working on space policy, I would say the balance was really 90 percent how government works and probably closer to 10 percent on space. And a lot of government roles are a much more generalist, but over time, while my knowledge of machinery government definitely hasn't decreased, my knowledge of space has. It's exponentially increased, but I do think to be effective in working in space policy field it's also really important to have a foundation of how the organization works and the roles and responsibilities of other organizations or stakeholders that you're going to be working with. And I was really fortunate to have access to wonderful technical experts who were willing to share their knowledge and experience as I started out in space policy.
And, I absolutely continue to benefit from their expertise. Through, like, throughout my career.
Andy: So Sarah, in 2021, in the middle of the pandemic, you stopped working and you did a diplomacy degree at the University of Oxford . So what was going on here? What was your plan? Why did you take this step?
Sarah Parker: Yeah, so I'm a really strong believer in lifelong learning and studying abroad. And in particular at Oxford had always been a major bucket list item. So from the time that I started contemplating if it could be realistic possibility, to when I showed up on the first day, it took a few years of planning and strategizing.
And to be honest, I was nearing the halfway point of my career. And I was at an inflection point in terms of whether I wanted to continue in the public sector. Or explore new opportunities in the private sector. And so I took a year away to step back and reflect. And I thought that diving into academic research was the ideal venue to kind of figure out those next steps.
And now that said, I did, in the back of my mind, have my sights set on this Canadian Space Agency. And that had been for quite some time. And while I was at Oxford, I wrote my dissertation on how norms form in multilateral organizations. And I used the Artemis Accords as a case study. And I thought a year spent researching and writing on contemporary civil space issues would be relevant if a position did happen to become available.
And I guess it's obvious that I concluded that doubling down with government was the path that I chose. And, but very much for the same reasons that attracted me to space policy in the first place.
Andy: That's interesting. So can you elaborate a little bit on your decision process there? I think it's something that people struggle with, whether to do an additional qualification or not to help their career forward, or, to really change sectors or not.
Sarah Parker: Yeah, I think in my case, I had been working in the defense realm for over a decade, but was really interested in some of the work that was happening on the civil space side. But I think so often in particular like high tempo government roles you can really get consumed by the day to day, like the 24 to 48 hour horizon.
And I missed the times that I had to reflect when I was a student. And I thought that being able to take that time, you know, really go back to that objective academic research mode, and also use the time to research and read about space and pursue kind of my own interests on space would be just a positive opportunity, and I was really fortunate to have flexibility from my employer to go back to school, and they really encouraged that and supported that.
And like I said, it had been something that I had wanted to do for so long. I never had the opportunity to study abroad when I was, you know, kind of going through university round one. And so, for round two, I wanted to rectify that.
Andy: Yeah, I think that's something else to highlight about the benefits of working in the civil service. I mean, I think it's the same in many countries is that you can actually take a long period away to go and study. I think that's quite an important opportunity. So now you have what could be described as the ultimate dream space policy job, working at the Canadian Space Agency as Senior International Advisor.
So please tell us a little bit about this role. What are you doing?
Sarah Parker: Yeah, absolutely. You're right. I absolutely love what I do. I'm working as a senior advisor on the international affairs team. And actually, the majority of my work is focused on multilateral issues, including our approach to the Committee on Peaceful Uses of Outer Space, or COPUOS. And more broadly, the team that I work on is the focal point for anything that needs an international lens at the Space Agency.
And as you can imagine, with the complexity of operating in space and the costs, international partnerships are absolutely the force multiplier in terms of the space enterprise, and I also have the opportunity to work closely with other government departments that are involved in space to ensure that what's being done at the international level is coordinated and consistent.
So, it's just really been such an interesting opportunity to continue working with people across government that I've known for a number of years and also to form so many new relationships, including with international partners.
Andy: That sounds absolutely fascinating. And, I know from my own little bit of experience at COPUOS, it is an amazing place to be. So is there anything that really surprised you about the role?
Sarah Parker: Yeah, you know, I think what really surprised me particularly in the work with COPUOS was the breadth of topics that have a nexus to the committee and also how passionate people are about the work that they do. And I think in some ways, it's a really unique privilege to work with so many people around the world who are both professionally, but also personally motivated by what they do.
And that's been really eye opening just the scope of the issues that are covered by the committee.
Andy: Yeah. So I really like what you say about this concept of the people being motivated and enthusiastic. I mean, that's something I've noticed that really, people have this sense of, kind of, optimism about things that isn't necessarily present in, in other sectors. And yeah, I was wondering whether it's, you know, something to do about the kind of endless possibilities of expansion out into space. And, all the huge benefits that we can bring from that, that makes people very optimistic.
So thinking along the lines, this is a careers focused podcast. What are some of the key skills that you need to use in your current role or some key skills that you're in the process of developing,
Sarah Parker: Yeah, I think the really key skill for this type of international work is the ability to maintain, build a network particularly like a robust network. And I think this is really applicable to any role in space policy in that success is built on these collaborative relationships as well as the trust and integrity in your work.
So, I think having solid background and some subject matter knowledge, and absolutely some of that subject matter knowledge is going to be developed over time, but it still is really important in terms of situating the advice that you're giving to your client, no matter who that client may be in the circumstances.
Andy: absolutely. So we were just talking before and we started recording that you didn't really have an idea about the types of roles that were available outside a technical field. And I think this is really common. People don't really have an idea what happens in a space policy role. So could you tell us what does a typical day look like for you?
What are some of the tasks that you're actually doing?
Sarah Parker: Yeah, I'll do my best to describe an interesting day. But to be honest, in a policy role, a lot of the work is actually, it's very office bound. And my days are really a mix of meetings, in person, but also there's still a fair amount of work that's being done online and work at my computer.
I mean, if we're preparing for a major international event, I may have very early mornings. Like, 5 or 6 in the morning or conversely very late evenings meetings at midnight or 1 or 2 to meet with international partners across multiple time zones and to coordinate on issues. So there's really that dynamic and interpersonal piece to it, but also a lot of my work is analysis.
Which is where I think an academic background comes in handy. I write a lot of products. We'll do presentations or briefing notes or position papers, speaking points, speeches and providing advice on the international affairs perspective or specific issues. And like I said a lot of it is still online.
It's actually been really enjoyable to return to more hybrid model within office days because quite frankly, and nothing can really replace bouncing ideas off of colleagues face to face and gaining their insights on the work that you're doing and, having that in person interaction as well, I think it's just so important.
Andy: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for sharing that. Now you studied for a BA in history and Political science and then an MA in political science at York University. So now along the lines of, we're trying to advise people here who are interested in starting their career in space policy. So when you look back, was this a helpful degree choice for you?
Would you have done anything differently?
Sarah Parker: You know, absolutely. I think it was, and I studied history and political science because they're topics that I was really interested in. And I think that interest drove me towards government and where I am today. I think particularly with history understanding the past helps us contextualize the present.
Which is relevant for political science and that both of these subjects also really taught deep reading and critical analysis, which are really crucial skills in a policy type role. That said, talking to some students recently, I've learned that there are so many more options available at university now, particularly doing a double degree that partners with foreign universities. There's way more opportunities for internships and particularly international internships that maybe existed when I was in university, and I absolutely wish those options had been around. But I do think, even working in a field that is definitely dominated by STEM graduates, I do think there's the really key role for arts graduates and people who studied social sciences and humanities. I think, across a lot of organizations, we talk about STEM but it's also about STEAM and there's so much strength in having a team with diverse educational backgrounds and skill sets and that we have a lot to, build from each other and learn from each other as well.
Andy: this is such a great point. I love it. It is true that we want more people to be in STEM subjects. I mean, this is like the core of the space sector and the kind of economic development and technology and innovation. And you have to have mathematicians and physicists and engineers and that's really important, it's not the heart of our lives.
And there's so many, there's so many difficult issues that are coming in the future. And I think we need people with the ability as you said, to contextualize them from past experience or to be able to see multiple perspectives and understand that. So I think that's a really important point you've raised.
And then the other aspect of this is that feeling like you belong in the space sector. I think that this is something. We need to work on that. It's not only for technical people, everyone should belong in the space sector, irrespective of what you've studied, when you were a young person.
Sarah Parker: Absolutely. And it's so great to see the growth in interest in the space sector because it means that, ideally, it will be promoting more people to pursue STEM careers, but also be very inclusive of people who have different backgrounds too.
Andy: Yeah. So we've mentioned some of the emerging challenges out there in the space sector. The growth of space debris, there's space traffic management, there's the increasing activities on the lunar surface and, even beyond. So with that in mind, what do you see coming in terms of future opportunities for the field, for space policy enthusiasts to work on?
Sarah Parker: yeah, you're right. And I think you've really listed some of those really wicked problems in the space domain that are going to require collaborative solutions and a lot of international cooperation as well, obviously, right? Like space is.. space is truly global. But quite honestly, the future opportunities in the field are growing exponentially, and I'm absolutely sure there's going to be jobs available in a few years that I can't even imagine today, particularly.
As you know, I see opportunities for non-stem majors becoming broader than ever, like, with the emergence of novel space activities and business models being driven by the private sector, even commercial space travel, there's so many new possibilities from advertising and marketing to areas of law and policy there, well beyond the government sphere.
So I, I just think there's, for people who are interested to join to really set their sights quite broadly because you know what it is today is not even what it's going to be in 24, 36 months.
Andy: Yeah. And just thinking about this, right. I was reading today about some of the commercial space station projects and they're looking at various business models, things like, having space tourism in effect, space hotels. And of course you have a number of issues there that we've never had to deal before with, having essentially untrained people in space or what happens if someone is sick or gets ill or has to be even repatriated.
And these are kind of issues that we've never really had to deal with before. And many kind of legal and policy and societal implications on that. And then there was also the issues with, doing in space manufacturing and sort of IP in space, what does it mean to have that kind of off earth?
So yeah it's absolutely fascinating. So for the space policy enthusiast that is listening to this podcast, can you give them some concrete advice about starting along this career path?
Sarah Parker: Yeah. I think I'll loop back to what I mentioned earlier. And my advice is to remain really as open minded as possible about what you want your future to look like and where you want it to take you. Like, I think it's good to have a goal and an objective, but I think it's also really important to be flexible, especially as we look to, like you say, like these really new questions that are being put on the table.
And so in that context, I think it's really important to look for opportunities to become more involved. Whether that's through, you know, work experience programs or internship, networking, mentorship, for the most part, everyone I've met who works in space really loves what they do, and they're kind of more than happy to talk to you about it.
You know, don't be afraid to approach people and ask for their advice to attend conferences and workshops. There's so much online still. And there's also a lot more happening in person. There's just so much happening with a space flavor and so many organizations getting involved in space that historically were not.
I do think that it would practically be a full time job just to keep track of that alone.[00:23:00] And finally to find something that you believe in. You'll spend the majority of your adult life in the workforce and maintaining a positive outlook on your career and cultivating that network and investing in the ongoing professional development necessary to keep pace with the rapidly evolving changes in space. It doesn't feel like work if you like what you do.
Andy: So that is some great advice, Sarah. And we are coming to the end of our time now. I like to end on a note of inspiration. So tell us what does this all mean to you? I mean, what's the big picture for you? What's the overall mission that you're working towards?
Sarah Parker: Yeah, so big picture. I see myself as one small part of a really exciting and dynamic ecosystem building international partnerships has always been an important part of advancing space exploration and our knowledge of the universe. And for me, the most inspirational thing about space is that we continually build on shared achievements to advance our understanding of the universe.
And there have been so many positive spin off benefits here on Earth in terms of technology. For myself, it's an absolute honour to be part of an organization that has a human spaceflight program. And I have so much respect and admiration for Canada's Astronaut Corps. And it's an honor to play my own small part in the Artemis program which is so inspirational in and of itself.
And as a mother of a young son and who's, I guess, gen alpha, is it now? Although I prefer generation Artemis this will be the generation that goes to Mars and beyond. And you know, what can be more exciting than that?
Andy: Amazing. Yep. Maybe the first person on Mars is alive today. They're probably in America, you know, they're a kid and yeah, it's just amazing to think about. So it's been a pleasure to talk to you, Sarah. Thank you so much for sharing your career story. Thank you.
Sarah Parker: absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
Andy: We hope you've been inspired by our journey through space Policy Careers on the Space Policy Pioneers podcast. If you are passionate about carving your path in the cosmos, don't miss out. Head over to www.scienceinspace.co uk to explore our exclusive space policy, career coaching services, and supercharge your career today.
With insights from top space policy experts, and a track record of helping professionals like you succeed. Science in Space is your trusted source for career growth. Please leave us a rating on your favorite podcast platform. Your five star rating not only shows your appreciation, but also helps us reach more space policy enthusiasts like you.
Sharing the show with three friends who hold your passion for space policy, or on your favorite social media platforms, amplifies our mission to educate and inspire. To stay connected, Follow Science and Space on LinkedIn, on X, and explore our video content on YouTube. As we continue to explore the boundless possibilities of space policy, thank you for joining us on this exciting journey. Ad Astra!
Shownotes
Title: Career Insights with Canadian Space Agency's Senior Policy Analyst, Sarah Parker
Bio:
Sarah joined the Canadian Federal Government as a Policy Advisor in 2009. She spent over a decade with National Defence, where she advanced a range of strategic defence initiatives, and specialized in space security and norm building efforts in the space domain. Sarah held a number of positions across the Defence Team, including as Deputy Policy Advisor to Commander Canadian Joint Operations Command, Executive Assistant to the Assistant Deputy Minister of Policy, and Deputy Director Space Strategy and Plans within DG Space (now 3 Canadian Space Division). Sarah joined the Canadian Space Agency (CSA) in 2022, where she works as a Senior Policy Analyst on the International and Regulatory Affairs Team and is the lead for the UN Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space (UN COPUOS).
Sarah is a graduate of Oxford University (MSt, Diplomatic Studies with Distinction), York University (MA, Political Science) and completed her undergraduate degree at Brock University (BA, Political Science and History). She enjoys spending time outdoors and exploring new cultures through travel.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-pacey-parker/
Disclaimer: All guests are talking in their personal capacity and are not representing any official position of their former or current employing organization.
Episode Summary: In this episode of the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast, host Andy Williams speaks with Sarah Parker, Senior Policy Analyst for the Canadian Space Agency. The discussion revolves around Sarah's career trajectory, which began in the defense sector and led to her current space policy role. Sarah shares her insights on the evolving space sector, the learnings from her diverse educational background, the importance of international partnerships, and the crucial skills needed for a successful career in space policy. The discussion also highlights some emerging challenges in the field and future opportunities for space policy enthusiasts.
Episode guide
01:16 Interview with Sarah Parker: Journey into Space Policy
01:32 Transitioning from Defense to Space Policy
03:33 Career Progression in Space Policy
05:11 Acquiring Knowledge and Skills for Space Policy
06:16 Understanding the Role of Civil Service in Space Policy
07:09 Balancing Knowledge in Space Sector and Government Roles
08:22 Pursuing Further Education in Diplomacy
11:34 Exploring Opportunities in the Canadian Space Agency
16:57 The Importance of Diverse Educational Backgrounds in Space Policy
19:30 Future Opportunities in the Space Sector
21:45 Advice for Aspiring Space Policy Enthusiasts
23:29 The Big Picture: A Vision for the Future and the Artemis Generation
Links and Resources
Canadian Space Agency: https://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/
University of Oxford: https://www.ox.ac.uk/
Oxford Diplomatic Studies: https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/mst-diplomatic-studies
York University: https://www.yorku.ca/
Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space: https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/copuos/index.html
Social Media Posts
Linkedin
