QUENTIN VERSPIEREN
Andy: Hello, space policy enthusiasts. Welcome to the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast. My name is Andy Williams and I'm the Director of Science in Space, a niche space policy consultancy firm. On this podcast, we'll talk to leading space policy experts and hear their informative and inspirational career stories to help you, the listener, learn about the different career paths in space policy and the skills you need to be successful.
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So Quentin, you have a PhD in public policy from the University of Tokyo, but you started your studies in aerospace engineering at the very prestigious ISAE-Supaero School in Toulouse, France. Now, one of the goals of this podcast is to explore how people can get into a career in space policy–which you have very successfully achieved and we'll cover this in more detail later–but let's start out at the beginning: talk us through this transition in going from engineering to public policy.
What were the reasons for making this decision? What was it that interested you about the policy field?
Quentin: So that's a very interesting question, and I think the answer goes far back in my life. I would say that since childhood, I had this very strong dual interest for social science on one side, even though probably at the time I didn't know they were called social sciences, but like history, politics, and the more hard science and technology on the other side.
And, I didn't want to take a side. I was always interested in both. And so, you know, I was the kind of kid that could follow presidential debates on TV and at the same time, two hours later, looking at the documentary on astrophysics. I always had this kind of eclectic taste for knowledge in general, and so I knew early on that I didn't want to choose and that I wanted to try to reconcile these two worlds.
And for the case of space specifically, I was mentioning an astrophysics documentary, it was always something that interested me, but not just the missions, not just the science but also thinking about. Why are we doing these missions? Who decides whether we go to Mars, whether we go to Jupiter? How are these choices made? Who is funding? And then how can I get to do that? How can I get to participate in this?
So I always wanted to find a way to, to have this convergence between science and policy. And the way the French system functions is that we tell you, even if you want to go to government, if you want to be a leader in industry, whatever you want to do, study math, study physics, enter an engineering school. What we call the grandes écoles–so the “great schools” literally. And then you can shift to wherever you want, whether you want to do science engineering, whether you want to do policy, whether you want to do business. So I just followed basically on the traditional French path. And I decided to start with this engineering studies was always the goal in mind at some point to study policy, or at least to turn to the policy world.
Andy: Yeah, that's something that I've heard quite a bit in these interviews so far, actually, is that the fascination behind, you know, why are certain decisions made? And, how does the process actually happen? It's often one of the drivers or the kind of sparks for people's interest in policy.
So you ended up in Japan. How did that move happen? Because it's quite a unique situation there.
Quentin: It was quite a big move and that was honestly not an easy decision. But as I said before, I was interested in history, in politics, which naturally leads also to an interest in diplomacy. And so I wanted to see whether this, I would say, “global profile” that wanted to develop and potentially global career, whether I was capable of it.
So I wanted to try to live abroad and to really cut from my life in France. I've spent before living in Japan, my entire life in France, mostly in the same city. So I thought, okay, let's, maybe it will be hard at the beginning, but let's do this huge jump. And so to broaden my horizon, I thought let's go live abroad.
However, there was still some kind of constraints that I had in my choice in the sense that I was at the time when I made this decision doing a master's of engineering and I wanted to continue a bit more my specialization in space engineering and astrodynamics specifically, which is my field in engineering.
And so I wanted to go to a country that had a very high level on this. High technical level in astrodynamics and space technologies in general, but at the same time, culturally very different from France. So I ruled out the United States. I ruled out the UK and I was like, okay, let's try to go really far.
And so I chose Japan also because like many people I understand this is a place that is attractive, that is interesting and culturally quite significant. So I quickly decided that yes, it would be Japan for me.
Andy: Yeah, that's true. I've, myself, I've worked in the US, I've worked in the UK, I've worked in Europe and I think they are more similar than they are different overall, but yeah, I think the difference between the Asian culture, I mean, that really is quite substantial. So you did a PhD at the University of Tokyo.
Now one of the key questions that people face in their careers, and particularly policy careers, is whether or not to do a PhD. There are many pros and cons, many opportunity costs. And unless you already know that you desire an academic career, it's not an easy choice, right? So how did you make this choice? What were the factors that led you to your PhD, rather than a policy related master's, for example?
Quentin: So it was not my plan in the start. So when I went to Japan, initially, as I said, it was to continue my engineering studies at master level. So it was a double degree between ISAE-Supaero in France and the University of Tokyo. And after completing the second master in Japan, I had an opportunity, a very interesting opportunity to be involved in policy.
And I think we will come back to it later. So working on some elements of the policy of the Japanese government. And so when chatting with my engineering professor at the time, I was explaining to him that my plan was indeed to study policy. As I said since childhood, I had this idea of studying both engineering and policy.
And I had the plan to go back to Paris and again, following the classic French path, studying in the place in Paris where you're supposed to study policy to enter the administration. And this professor told me, okay, first think about the opportunity in Japan. Space policy, in particular at the time–I'm talking six years ago, roughly–was present in Japan, but a bit less than now that there are a lot of startups that are in need of a policy expert.
So he told me, see, this is a land of opportunity, so to say. So why don't you consider staying a bit more? And he suggested something else. He said, okay, why don't you do a PhD instead of a masters? You will have the title of doctor, which in some settings. could be useful. And the good thing in Japan, and I think it's important to highlight, is that like in France, for instance, the PhD is three years.
So it's not an engagement of seven years sometime or more than in the U. S. So in a way, When you want to invest in policy studies and you have the choice between a two year master's degree or a three year plus a bit more sometimes PhD in particular in a setting like the University of Tokyo where you have access to resources, to experts. I thought, okay, if I want to invest this time in policy, I will invest into a PhD, and I will try to specialize as much as possible.
And in fact, I have absolutely no regret doing that in the sense that I always had this interest for academia, I was always the kind of student that liked to write papers, read books, and so for me, it was really, really not a painful experience to do a PhD. It was a very enjoyable experience.
Andy: And so at the time, did you have an ambition to actually go into an academic career when you were starting out your PhD?
Quentin: no, not, no, not really. I was still following this idea that I would at some point go back to France and try to work for the government. But I really loved it. And in particular, while I was doing the PhD, I was asked sometimes to, like most PhD students, teach a lecture or two.
And I realized I love that–teaching. And so in the end I thought, okay, I managed to specialize with that PhD. Let's continue to learn. Let's keep building knowledge on space policy, on space traffic management, was the topic of my PhD. And I spent wonderful it was around three years as assistant professor at the University of Tokyo and I love it so much that even now in my current position at ESA I was authorized to stay part time assistant professor at the university and I'm still supervising students. I'm still teaching and I really don't want to give that up.
Andy: Yeah, that's a really fantastic opportunity. What advice could you give to someone? I mean, in the same situation, who's contemplating doing a PhD. What would you tell them?
Quentin: This is a really tough question because I think it, it depends so much on not necessarily on the career after that, because I think whether you have a master in policy or a PhD if you're motivated, if you're hardworking, if you have the knowledge relevant to the field in which you want to develop your career, this will work.
So. Maybe I would take the counterpoint of the question to say it doesn't necessarily matter. I've seen exceptional space policy experts, without PhD and I've seen experts with PhD, that are far from being brilliant. So it's not at all a guarantee at least for, I would say more of the practical element of space policy like it is practiced in space agencies startups. It's not necessary to have a PhD.
There are a lot of benefits. I mean, you focus more on rigor. You have, of course, more methodological basis, I would say, that are helping then when you draft position papers, when you also, if you've studied subjects related to government, may help you navigate the government because you have all the even subconsciously you have all these methodologies, the theories that help. But that is not, I would say that is not necessary. And I'm sure we can cite hundreds of examples of brilliant people who have no PhD and, and that's perfectly fine.
Andy: I mean, sometimes I myself reflect on the opportunity cost. And I had a colleague who did not do a PhD, did not do a masters. And in the seven or eight years that I was doing my PhD. He was reading a book a week and, you know, had this really sort of rich deep knowledge of many, many different policy subjects in a very sort of different way. Whereas, I had a very niche knowledge, very, very deep one particular thing. But I think you're right about the skills behind the techniques and the methods that kind of stay with you. Ten years later, I still open up sometimes my methods notes and files just to help me deal with certain problems. So it was definitely a skill that stays with you.
And so what about the transition going from engineering to social science? Because this is particularly interesting, I think, so you were studying engineering and then now you're doing a PhD in social science. So how did you find that?
Quentin: First I recommend doing that. It's an interesting exercise. It's quite enriching to discover a brand new field. Of course, the jump from let's say engineering to directly a PhD in social science is quite a big step. And I have to admit that at the beginning you're lagging a bit in terms of, I would say methods, theoretical knowledge that other students that have been doing social science their whole life have.
And so the beginning is tough. You need to catch up. You need to get some, I would say, automatism that others acquired during their bachelor and master in politics or international relations that you don't necessarily have when you come from engineering. At the same time, in my case because I had this very interesting opportunity to, let's say, accompany the Japanese government on some policy element. So because I started doing that during my Master of Engineering, I had some kind of smooth transition, not necessarily in the methodology, but at least I was familiar with the topics, with the approach.
So it worked. But honestly, this is the easy way– I would say–engineering to social science. I know people who have done the reverse thing, and I admire them very much. This is much braver. Because I think, the scientific mindset, when you have been trained in math, in, in physics, this is not just about the knowledge of math and physics. It's about thinking logically, expressing ideas clearly, logical consequences. And this mindset is easy to transpose into social science. Knowing now both fields, I think really the reverse approach is far from being obvious.
Andy: Yeah, I've had some mentees who have been at their, they finished their engineering degree, for example, maybe done an engineering masters and then they're asking me, okay, so I want to go into a policy role. How do I do that? And I think, I try to advise them will actually stay for a couple of years, and work in industry or work in a technical position using your engineering skills. And then come back to me. Because once you've left engineering, every year that you're out of it, it gets harder and harder to return. That math really disappears very quickly from your brain.
And, I think if I had to go back and become a physicist again, I mean, I would literally have to start from scratch, I would have to do an undergraduate degree because the knowledge is mostly gone. So yeah, it is, it's very hard to go from a policy role to a technical role, but I think it's easier to go into, to the reverse, as you said.
And another thing that I've noticed actually in terms of career, right? So, if you had worked for 10 years in a policy role, and then you wanted to go and do a technical subject, you could do that. You could do a degree or maybe a master's and then get a technical job. But most likely it would be probably an early entry type job because you just don't have the technical background or the kind of experience to really be at a senior level.
Whereas that's not the case, I think with policy or managerial roles, you can make the jump after having a technical career, and you can make the jump to quite a senior role in a sort of policy or government relations type position, even without little experience because you have the knowledge of a sector or an industry.
Quentin: I think that's exactly the case in a lot of space agencies that are traditionally populated mostly of engineers. And so you can see a lot of engineers who are leading satellite projects and then are appointed as head of the international relations department, for instance. But you don't see an administrator in international relations department becoming the head of a satellite project. Yes, you're, you're perfectly true.
Andy: So on that note, then, can you give us a short overview of your career story? Because you've had, you've mentioned quite a number of interesting positions and sort of multiple activities going on. Tell us about that.
Quentin: Okay, I will try to go chronologically and also it will help explain what I was mentioning that I had this kind of smooth transition between engineering and policy.
So I would say the turning point in my very early career and to some extent, a big turning point in my life as a whole because it led me to stay in Japan and to meet my wife there and now having a child–it was an important turning point– is when I arrived at the university to study astrodynamics, I was in the laboratory of a famous professor in Japan called Shinichi Nakasuka at the University of Tokyo. And we had a first discussion when I arrived and he, very general, like any professor does when he has a foreign student arriving, so where do you come from? What do you like to do in life? What are your perspectives after studying here? How does it, how does this Master play in the future career you want to have, etc.
And so I explained what I explained to you in the previous minutes, which is that I had this interest in policy and I wanted at some point to make the link between the technical elements and policy. And this is when I got a very, basically a big moment of luck that this professor Shinichi Nakasuka happens to be one of the most influential men in Japanese space policy. He has been since the creation of the National Space Policy Council in Japan, one of the core members and he was quite surprised because most of the students that, all the students that he had so far, who were primarily Japanese students, tend to be really passionate with engineering and not necessarily with, let's say other topics or tangential topics.
And so he told me, okay, if you're interested, come with me from time to time to the cabinet office and see how we do space policy in Japan. So at first it was tough because of course they speak in Japanese and I was arriving, not speaking Japanese. But they were really accommodating. They showed me how they were doing. They let me attend meetings and they identified an area where a Frenchman could help: Relationships with African countries and Southeast Asian countries, so including a lot of French speaking countries.
And at the time and still now, Japan had a very strong diplomacy towards developing countries to help them, let's say, start a space program, do their first steps in space. And it's a very well organized system with the government, Japanese universities doing capacity building, and it worked really well. And Professor Nakuska is one of the architects of this. And so I had a few years of extraordinary experience with them, even accompanying Japanese delegations to foreign countries to discuss space affairs.
When I was in this delegation, they were always Ministers in other countries telling me, You don't seem to be Japanese. Are you Japanese or not? I was like, I'm French. It's like, what are you doing here? What are you doing with the Japanese? So it was really an interesting time, but I got to learn a lot on, I would say, how government functions.
How big governments, big complex governments like the Japanese function, how the small or emerging governments that we're interacting with function, what is the complexity sometimes of having two very different governments talking to each other without telling the name of the other government, but there are some government that are more restrained in the way they express things more understated– I would say like the Japanese —that would be discussing with governments that are naturally a bit more in the confrontation, a bit more emotional, I would say, in their response. And sometimes it led to complicated moments and that was really interesting to understand how real diplomacy is made. And so I was really in the center of the machine. So mostly on support to developing countries and a bit less directly because these are a bit more sensitive topic, but on issues of space traffic management, space security, responsible behavior in space. That was, that is a hot topic since a few years. So this was the, let's say, the first venture into policy. And that was fascinating.
I also then started to work for a startup. So the university of Tokyo is very active in spinning off some of its activities in the form of startup and the same professor has a laboratory. So doing astrodynamics and doing CubeSats. And there was a company that spinned off called ArkEdge Space that grew a lot since then. Now they're really well funded, very successful. And I was the first employee of this company. So when it was founded by the CEO was associated with the lab, I was his right arm. And I was then later when the company grew the head of the strategy department, again, mostly dealing with interaction with emerging countries, providing support to, let's say, obtain a CubeSat, know how to operate a satellite. So still very much on the institutional role.
And to be frank, I was never that interested iin the business field before, that's why I had the role that was mostly institutional and that was fine. And I would say business, it's still not my forte. I'm very well in a government role. Like I have now at ESA. But it was really interesting to see. To see how companies grow, how startup can be developed, how to get support, how to get funding. And also how a different world it is from government.
Like it's literally a different language and it was funny sometimes to see when you have meetings between pure startupers and not so young government officials. You really feel that they're not speaking the same language and they don't understand each other. And it's quite hilarious sometimes.
I would say the third thing that I was doing a bit too much in parallel. Honestly, it was during the PhD. Most of these things, was that I wanted to keep some connection with Europe because I always had this idea of going back to France or another European country, Europe in a large sense at some point and so I wanted to keep contacts in Europe and to also develop my understanding of how space was functioning in the region because I left for Japan. I was fairly young. I didn't have a career in Europe, so it was. In a way, a field that I didn't know well at the time, and so I managed to join the European Space Policy Institute as a non resident fellow, first on Asian matters, because of course they, they saw that it was in their interest to have someone who could contribute to reports on Asia, but then on European issues.
And one of the most interesting projects I was involved in is the SpaceWays study on space traffic management for the European commission. And this study in particular was so useful in figuring out the European landscape. You know, there is ESA, there is the EU, now there is EUSPA at the time I think it was GSA it was called. All this organization have their respective member states, which are often overlapping. There is EUMETSAT, there is the European Southern Observatory. There are so many organizations in Europe with different governance, different membership, different, let's say hierarchical level. And... Being at ESPI, which is really the core of European space policy, was an extraordinary experience, and I wouldn't be as comfortable as I am now at ESA if I didn't work there.
And, but this, I already mentioned it, but after the PhD, so I spent a few years as assistant professor. And I would recommend that to everyone, not necessarily be a full time professor, but teach if you have opportunity to teach, teach. Because when you have to teach something, you at first feel, okay, I know this topic, I can teach it. And when you try to teach it to people who don't know about the topic and already have a good level, because I was teaching masters and PhD students, then you realize that you may not know as well as you thought. Because to teach you really need to master your topic. And so that's a very humbling exercise, I would say, to teach. In particular, when you teach to brilliant, very well selected students who challenge you intellectually. So yeah, this is roughly all the things I've done while I was in Japan. And really all of them were extremely important for building my career.
Andy: Yeah, so thanks. Thanks for sharing that. That really is an amazing story. So I'm interested about the the role at ESPI. Were they specifically advertising for someone with Asian experience and knowledge, or was that a role that you proposed for them?
Quentin: No, it was not advertised to answer the first part of the question, it was not advertised like this. It was more of, again, I don't want to overemphasize that but there is a lot of luck in you, you may have in life. So of course it's how you manage to seize the opportunity but there were a few moments where I was fortunate to meet the right people.
I cannot even recall exactly what conferences it was. I think it maybe ISEF too, you know, the international space exploration forum that was happening in Tokyo. I don't remember which year it was. And there was the director of ESPI–Jean Jacques Tortora at the time, and he was, he had always been interested in Asia in developing the knowledge at ESPI. There was already a great researcher for Asia called Marco Aliberti, absolutely brilliant. But he wanted to have a bigger team on that. So that's why he suggested to bring me in as a non-resident fellow. And then seeing that, I had also this interest, not just on Asian countries, space policy, but also more generally on space traffic management, space safety and sustainability.
That's how I started to get enrolled in other things. And I want to use the opportunity to mention to all the listeners that under the current director, Ludwig Moller ESPI is trying to develop. This they call that global fellows now. and at the time I was more or less the only global fellow.
It was not called like this, but there are more now. So I don't speak on behalf of ESPI. I don't know how many opportunities they will have, but do follow what's happening at ESPI. There may be very interesting opportunities in the coming years.
Andy: Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think that and we'll put this in the show notes for sure, but the following ESPI as an institute and just signing up to their social media accounts, signing up to their newsletter, which I think is one of the best kind of really in depth summaries of everything that's going on in the space sector. I think it's essential reading to build up your knowledge about space policy.
So now you've landed maybe one of the most highly sought after roles in the European space sector, at least a job at the European Space Agency where you are the project lead for one of the new ESA accelerators.
So, please tell us a little bit about this decision to work for ESA and what are the ESA accelerators?
Quentin: Yes, that's a good question. So I think first as a context, you can see from what I explained previously that although I touched upon a lot of areas the common point is I would say an inclination for government action. So I always had this idea of working for government, whether a national government in France or an intergovernmental organization like ESA. That's in terms of culture, of spirit, of approach. That's what I like. It's a very personal choice, but I like the goal of government and also more generally despite what we hear sometimes that companies are all powerful and that the private sector calls the shots on everything, I don't necessarily agree with that.
And I think government agencies, in particular major intergovernmental organization like ESA, can really have an influence on shaping some debates and on the space sector as a whole, of course, within the boundaries of the role that ESA is given by its member states. And so, when I was still in Tokyo assistant professor for a couple of years. I was starting to think about the next step as you can see I like to discover various roles and so I was looking. Without necessarily feeling an urge to leave Japan, but I was looking at what was appearing on the job market in France or at ESA.
And I saw this job called Protect Accelerator Coordinator, which at the time I honestly didn't understand anything that it meant. But when reading the description, it was an important position on space sustainability with the idea to bridge policy and technical developments, with great challenges, quite a lot of responsibility, quite a lot of exposure.
And so I thought, yeah, this is what I've always wanted to do. So again, it was a lot of luck that I went–because I didn't even have alerts for jobs on the ESA website–So one day I went on the website and there was this thing, it was this intriguing name. And so I looked, of course instantly applied because the requirements were honestly a perfect fit for my profile.
But, again, this was not an easy choice. Life in Japan was wonderful, very comfortable. We can talk about that later, but academic freedom is something that is extremely precious and comfortable that's not necessarily the same setting in an organization like ESA. And more generally, Professor in Japan is one of the highest status you can dream of. It's very well respected as you understood from before being even a student or a professor at the university helps you have some role, even in government, even as a foreigner, you can have a role in government in Japan.
So it was, it was not such an obvious choice as it could seem when I'm explaining it now,, but honestly it was too attractive. And now that I'm here. Now that I know what the job really is, it's actually even better than I thought, and I'm extremely happy to be here.
Andy: So before we get into the details of this, I mean, let's come back to this point about the pros and cons of working for ESA. Because I think that this is an important point to emphasize, you know, for anyone who's looking to get into the sector.
There are some major benefits, right, to working for a prestigious intergovernmental organization. You have a decent pay, you have some level of job security that's not unlike a government system. You have good family benefits, but, there's some other differences, some cons maybe, or maybe just differences, let's say, compared to industry and also academia, where you have a lot more freedom about what you can do. I mean, in industry, you can move much more rapidly, usually, in an organization, whereas I think in ESA, right, you're, you're kind of assigned a role and it's not necessarily so straightforward to change every year. You usually get, is it a three year contract or a five year contract?
Quentin: Yes, so, Let's start with the cons, but I would say they're not necessarily a problem. It's just that you have to be aware of them, and this may not be a situation that would be okay for everyone. And in that sense, I don't think it's, there are some elements specific to ESA, but I think it's generally elements specific to government, which is that, of course, there is a clear hierarchy, and it could take time to move up the ranks. There is definitely not this flexibility that you may have in a company where you could be very young and very brilliant and jump at the top manager position. That's typically not the thing that I would say, naturally happen in ESA also because we were talking about public money.
So, you know, you have to be, you have to be much more cautious about how you progress. You cannot give the best salary to everyone. You need to progress. It's a big organization. The administration is really serious. But I think these rules, this hierarchy, this administration is here because we are entrusted with huge responsibilities.
I mean, the ESA budget has again increased after the ministerial in 2022. Suddenly I don't have the figure in that, so I don't want to give a wrong information, but it's several billion euros. We are implementing projects that are transformative in Europe, so it's normal in the end that the 22 member states that give us the money, things to be done with utmost care, with rules that let's say there are processes. I think it's like in government, there are processes for everything, but I think they're perfectly legitimate because we are dealing with big budgets with very important projects.
But I would say that in, in the daily life, it's something that, that you navigate really easily. And I would say beyond the fact that yes, the career is progressive. Beyond the grade and the salary, to put it plainly, if you really have good ideas, if you're motivated, if you're hardworking, you can be recognized.
And that's something I, this is a really personal case, but that's something I feel with this Protect Accelerator, that is a new initiative. I will, I'm not explaining yet what it is, but where I get to do things that I really believe in. And I have some freedom to, to try to do them the best way I can.
And so this is really pleasant and really in all the benefits, I will not repeat all the things that you said, but completely exceed sometimes the complexity of the process. I mean, as you said, we are very well paid. It's really prestigious. Since I joined ESA, it's not the same ring in a way when you talk to people there, there is some something, yeah, some prestige, I think is the word you use. And that's true.
So honestly, if you have the opportunity to join ESA, don't have second thoughts, just because it's administratively a bit heavy, because I'm sure a lot of the big companies or national governments would have similar kind of control and process. And that's normal when you deal with big budget.
Andy: So sign up to the job alerts for ESA. I think
Quentin: Yes.
Andy: Very important to do.
So let's talk about this Accelerator the Protect project now.
Quentin: Yes. So, maybe a bit of background on the accelerators as a whole and then protect that is one of the, I would say, declination of three out of three accelerators. The accelerators are a new set of initiatives that was created by the ESA Director General, Joseph Aschbacher, after the report of what we call the High Level Advisory Group.
So all these things happened before I joined. It was a group of experts from the space field, from outside. I think it was chaired by the former Secretary General of NATO, Rasmussen, and they gave a set of recommendations on the future of ESA and on, to some extent, increasing the impact, the transformative impact that these activities can have.
And one of these recommendations was, and I quote, to accelerate the use of space in Europe. And accelerating the use of space, hence the term accelerators. And I specify it right now. We don't accelerate startups. That is what people sometimes imagine, is that the philosophy behind this is that ESA has knowledge, has technologies keep continuing to develop this knowledge and this technology doesn't necessarily manages to have a full impact on the European society with this knowledge and these technologies.
So there are a lot of effort that is done in commercialization, etc. But we want to go even more. And as it says in the report, accelerating the use of space in Europe. And this means engaging with new communities: institutional actor, private actor, NGOs that could use space technologies, space data, but that don't necessarily know how to integrate them, don't know the existence of products that can be useful. And the accelerators are often defined. The approach has three steps, trying to engage with, engaging with community to identify use cases, innovative use cases, then developing and demonstrating new solutions, and finally scaling up the solutions.
So that from this use case, this solution, we have a big impact in Europe and even beyond, and that we can help new sectors to grow. And this was created in three Accelerators, one focusing on the green transition. It's called Space for a Green Future. One on a crisis response security called the Rapid and Resilience Crisis Response or R3 in short, and one called Protection of Space Assets in short, PROTECT. Finally, we arrive at the PROTECT accelerator. So PROTECT concretely is an accelerator that is implemented by the directorate of operations.
So I belong to the Directorate of Operations at ESA which is the directorate that houses the space safety program which is a major program this I have the figure in mind that to reach in which member states since 2019 invested around 1.2 billion euros. So it's probably the, it's, I think the largest space safety program in the world in terms of funding. So it's a massive commitment from European member states on space, safety and sustainability. And so what Protect does is that it focuses on safeguarding vital infrastructures from space hazard by leveraging the capabilities of the space safety program.
And we are doing that on two components. One is on the promotion of what we call the Zero Debris Approach. And I think I need to talk a bit about this. And the other one is on supporting the operationalization of space weather services in Europe. To tell a bit more about these two points.
So the Zero Debris Approach is a major commitment of ESA, validated by the Member State, which says that by 2030, all the ESA missions designed after 2030 will be designed so as not to leave any debris in valuable orbits. Hence the zero debris, and that's a very strong commitment by 2030. And when member states validated this zero debris approach that is uh, an internal ESA commitment, we were asked, and I quote, to encourage others to follow similar paths and to encourage this other, we have decided to launch an initiative that, you know, very well, that is the zero debris charter. And the zero debris charter, the idea is to show that we can bridge between high level principles and norms. And for that organizations like COPUOS have done a tremendous job and the technical development that is happening at E sign companies in space agencies. And to connect these two, what we found is that we may want to have targets.
Targets that are not standards or technical requirements, but just with figures, what kind of space environment we want, what kind of space operations I would say we want by 2030. But something that is concrete, that is meaningful, that is measurable. And this is a step on which we believe ESA has the legitimacy, because we accompany this technological development we accompanied for our own missions and for our member states.
And so this is why we created this charter. This is in my opinion, a major, very important initiative that will help really build a community. Not on principles, not just on technological development, but really acting so that we ensure space safety and sustainability by 2030 and just a word on the space weather.
So ESA has been one of the most prominent organization for the development of space weather services. But ESA as a technical agency, doesn't necessarily have the role to provide operational services. So ESA developed tools, developed solutions, developed in collaboration with Member States, the Space Weather Service Network, but in a pre operational status. And what we do with the Protect Accelerator is again trying to connect with the right partners in Europe so that on the basis of this pre operational network at ESA, we manage to find the right people to help us. Operationalized the service to have 24/7 high quality space weather services in Europe.
So these two are work in progress. So I really encourage you to follow what we do and in particular on the zero debris charter. It is open to everyone because we want to show that it is not just about operators to operate in a different way. It's not just about integrators to develop new technologies and new satellite platform, but it could be also about, let's say, investors choosing where to invest their money, depending on how sustainable the company is. It could be insurers insuring or not, depending on whether the company has responsible practices. It could be States who will choose to have a specific governmental action, whether regulatory financing to influence the achievement of the targets. So wherever you are in the community, whatever organization you work for, you're welcome in the charter initiative.
Andy: Yeah. So thanks for explaining that. And, you know, in terms of space policy this is really, I think one of the most significant topics that we have of this current generation. Just recently I'm seeing people, so it used to be the case, right, that many people were motivated to enter the space sector, because of the scientific wonder, or just because of the inspirational idea of doing something very difficult and launching rockets into space.
And I'm now seeing people who hear about the problem of space debris and are motivated because it's a sustainability challenge. And that's something that's really fascinating. That I don't think we've had before, and it's now, and it's now starting to emerge as a driver. And in terms of policy, I mean, we're seeing many, many different groups and organizations creating kind of, charters or sets of standards or voluntary norms and guidance. So where do you think this is going? Are we going to get to the state where we actually have some sort of really tough regulations in place in the future.
Quentin: That's a very complicated, that's a very complicated question. I think you know that better than anyone. I think you see around the world, a strengthening of regulations to the direction of protecting space safety and sustainability. The decision of the FCC to reduce the deorbiting deadline to five years was a pretty important change in the United States.
France has a very ambitious space operation act. Japan, when I was still there at the university of Tokyo I was not involved in this but issued major guidelines on how to safely operate in orbit services capabilities. So. I cannot guess, I would say, what will be next, what could be the scale of regulations? Would we have a global system on space traffic management? That is something that a lot of people want. Or, really, this is something I think that I wouldn't be doing more than wild guess without real value –but I think there is clearly a trend of Governments around the world understanding that we are extremely dependent, over reliant on space infrastructure.
And we really don't want to live in a situation where we lose space support. Because losing space support is going back to the stone age. And I think that's something probably a lot of people in the community understand, but it's always how I start my lectures, my course on space policy with new students who haven't studied space affairs or what I explained to my family, my friends who are not in the space sector, is, you know, just when you go to the restaurant and you use an application on your smartphone to find the restaurant, have the blue line that tells you how to go there, the blue dot telling you where you are.
I mean, the map has been developed with satellite picture, satellites that help in the topography. You are using a massive PNT, Position Navigation and Timing Infrastructure from GPS from Galileo, GLONASS, et cetera. You have this information all around the world, most likely thanks to communication satellites.
You will be able to know just on the app next to this one, whether you need to take an umbrella or not on your way to the restaurant. And just by doing this very mundane thing that takes you 20 seconds, you may have been using an infrastructure worth north of a hundred billion dollars. And when you think about this, when you think about how unconsciously we are dependent, and I'm not talking about the timing system of GPS, that time, the global financial network, electricity distribution system, communication networks, transportation networks.
When you think about that, when you realize that, then you think. And that's my personal drive that it's wonderful to send missions to Jupiter and I'm so amazed by my colleagues who are doing this kind of things, but I'm as proud to have a mission going to Jupiter as to make sure that our society will not suffer the consequence of a proliferation of space debris or of an unprepared solar flare.
Because this would have consequences that are dramatic and not just economic, not just economic. And I think it's, it's a matter of really national safety, beyond just space safety to consider these issues and to take them seriously. And this is why I'm extremely proud to be at ESA as I mentioned before is worldwide the largest funding on these issues.
Andy: So Quentin, I think you've really articulated very well, magnificent: why? Why it's important to be involved in space policy right now. And I think there's many difficult challenges that are coming and many opportunities for people to take. So I just want to say thank you very much for explaining that. And so I think we're going to, because the time is almost an hour. And I think you've just kind of ended it on a really nice part. So I think yeah, let's if it's okay with you, unless there's anything like really, really wanted to say that we haven't covered, I'll wrap it up there.
Quentin: No, I just want to say that it was a pleasure being part of this podcast. I think that what you do is very useful because I mean, I may have sounded like it was an easy transition, but it's a big choice, to move from engineering. Space is a world of engineers.
So if you want to have an easy, comfortable walk through the space sector, engineering is not intellectually the easy solution, but career-wise could be an easier solution. So you need some kind of bravery either to start purely in space policy or to switch to space policy, because even in the policy world people tend to be interested in war, in, in big government affairs and space doesn't necessarily is the natural field in which policy makers want to go.
And so I think it's very valuable what you do in the sense that for all of those who may be hesitating, who may think that it's a frightening jump. We can tell, people like me can tell: don't be afraid, don't hesitate. It's every day is fascinating and if you love space policy, there will be more and more opportunities in the government because space is getting increasingly, as I mentioned, important in society. There was a big boom of space communication at the time of the space race, but space is more important than ever.
So space policy rules will be important in government. All the startups now want and need their policy guys. So It's a promising job market even to be really pragmatic. So really do not hesitate. And I'm sure all the other people you've interviewed will have wonderful advice to give. And again, Andy, thanks a lot for this opportunity and for this great series of podcasts.
Andy: Thank you very much, Quentin, for that very optimistic note there. So thank you. All right.
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Shownotes
Title: Transitioning from Engineering to Space Policy with Quentin Verspieren, ESA Coordinator for the PROTECT Accelerator project
Bio: Quentin Verspieren is the Protect Accelerator Coordinator at the Strategy and Transformation Office, Directorate of Operations, European Space Agency. In this role, he leads the development of ambitious European initiatives on debris mitigation and remediation, and on space weather services. Dr. Verspieren is also a visiting Assistant Professor at the Science, Technology, and Innovation Governance (STIG) program, Graduate School of Public Policy, The University of Tokyo, where his research primarily focuses on space policymaking and technology development in developing countries and on international regime-making for space security, safety and sustainability. He has two master’s degrees in aerospace engineering (ISAE-SUPAERO and The University of Tokyo) and a Ph.D. in public policy (The University of Tokyo).
Disclaimer: All guests are talking in their personal capacity and are not representing any official position of their former or current employing organization.
Episode Summary: In this episode of the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast, host Andy Williams, Director of Science in Space, chats with Quentin Verspieren, the Project Lead for one of the European Space Agency (ESA) new accelerators. Quentin shares his unique career journey from aerospace engineering to public policy, providing valuable insights for listeners interested in exploring their own career paths in space policy. He discusses his role at the ESA, explains the goal of the ESA accelerator projects, and emphasizes the growing importance of space policy. Additionally, Quentin provides an overview of the key elements that make up a promising job market in space policy.
Episode Guide
00:05 Introduction to the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast
01:14 Transition from Aerospace Engineering to Public Policy
04:24 Moving to Japan and Exploring New Opportunities
06:31 The Decision to Pursue a PhD
09:41 The Challenges and Rewards of Teaching
17:35 Career Overview and Experiences in Different Sectors
26:30 The Role at the European Space Policy Institute (ESPI)
28:54 Working at the European Space Agency (ESA) and the ESA Accelerators
45:09 The Importance of Space Policy and Sustainability
50:55 Final Thoughts and Encouragement for Aspiring Space Policy Professionals
Links and Resources
ISAE Supaero School, Toulouse: https://www.isae-supaero.fr/en/
University of Tokyo, Public Policy School: https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/en/academics/grad_public_policy.html
Prof. Shinici Nakasuka: https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/focus/en/people/people000178.html
ArkEdge Space: https://arkedgespace.com/en
SpaceWays Study on Space Traffic Management: https://spaceways-h2020.eu/
European space Agency: https://www.esa.int/
EU Agency for the Space Programme: https://www.euspa.europa.eu/
EUMETSAT: https://www.eumetsat.int/
ESO: https://eso.org
European Space Policy Institute: https://www.espi.or.at/
ESA Accelerators: https://vision.esa.int/category/ambition/accelerate-the-use-of-space/
ESA Careers site: https://jobs.esa.int/
ESA Director General: https://www.esa.int/About_Us/Corporate_news/Josef_Aschbacher_ESA_Director_General
Report of the ESA High Level Advisory Group: https://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/corporate/h-lag_brochure.pdf
ESA Space Safety Programme: https://www.esa.int/Space_Safety/Space_Safety_Programme_at_Ministerial_Council
ESA Zero Debris Approach: https://www.esa.int/Space_Safety/Clean_Space/ESA_s_Zero_Debris_approach
Zero Debris Charter: https://esoc.esa.int/sites/default/files/Zero_Debris_Charter_EN.pdf
US Federal Communications Commission (FCC) 5 year deorbiting rule: https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-adopts-new-5-year-rule-deorbiting-satellites
French Space Operations Act, 2008: https://download.esa.int/docs/ECSL/France.pdf
Information about the review of the French space law: https://indico.esa.int/event/450/contributions/8993/attachments/5692/9448/update%20of%20the%20FSOA-T4SC_CSID%202023.pdf
Galileo Satellite Navigation: https://www.euspa.europa.eu/european-space/galileo/What-Galileo
Useful Resources
Comparison between Japanese and American space policy: https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3589/1
List of space sustainability charters and initiatives:
Interagency Space Debris Coordination Committee: https://iadc-home.org/what_iadc
Space Safety Coalition: https://spacesafety.org/
Global Satellite Operators Association (GSOA) Code of Conduct: https://gsoasatellite.com/wp-content/uploads/GSOA-Code-of-Conduct-Paper.pdf
Space Sustainability Rating: https://spacesustainabilityrating.org/
Earth-Space Sustainability Initiative (ESSI): https://www.essi.org/
Net Zero Space Initiative: https://www.netzerospaceinitiative.org/
Zero Debris Charter: https://esoc.esa.int/sites/default/files/Zero_Debris_Charter_EN.pdf
UN Long Term Sustainability Guidelines: https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/topics/long-term-sustainability-of-outer-space-activities.html
UN OOSA Compendium on space debris standards: https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/topics/space-debris/compendium.html
Social Media Posts
Key points
* Should you do a PhD?
* Transition to policy after engineering or vice versa?
* Pros and cons of working for government, ESA vs industry.
