SPP1 - Tanushri Joshi
Transcriipt
[00:00:00] Andy: Hello, space policy enthusiasts Welcome to the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast. My name is Andy Williams and I'm the Director of Science in Space, a niche space policy consultancy firm. On this podcast, we'll talk to leading space policy experts and hear their informative and inspirational career stories to help you, the listener, learn about the different career paths in space policy and the skills you need to be successful.
If you enjoy this podcast, please help us by leaving a five star rating on your favorite podcast platform and sign up for more information and career resources at www. scienceinspace.co.uk. One final note before we begin, all guests are talking in their personal capacity and are [00:01:00] not representing any official position of their former or current employing organization.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not legal or investment advice.
Tanushri, you have worked for one of the most exciting Indian space companies, which has achieved an amazing goal in the shortest time from its establishment and before many competitor companies in Europe and America, I should add, of putting a payload into orbit. So this is Skyroot. How did you find yourself working there at Skyroot and what inspired you to sign up?
[00:01:45] Tanushri: right. So, Skyroot, the company in itself has achieved quite a lot of milestones in a very short period of time from its establishment. And for me, I was always very fascinated by space. And I was very keen on [00:02:00] working with the space industry and on the technical side at first. But growing up, I then realized science was not my cup of tea.
So, that sort of drifted, like I drifted apart from this. And it was then during my participation in a space law moot court competition that I actually developed interest in space law, researched more about it. And as I've always been wanting to work in the space sector, I got an opportunity. This was directly after my graduation that I started working with Skyroot.
It's not very often that you do get a chance to work on cool stuff, like rockets, satellites, and so on. Especially on the space law and policy part back then especially in India. So, having this opportunity, I think there was no way that I could have denied it.
[00:02:56] Andy: And was it that - did the space sector find you [00:03:00] or had you kind of already had an interest in space before that? So what was your early interest in space?
[00:03:09] Tanushri: So I think I was very much drawn towards astronomy. I was drawn towards the research and development in terms of aviation and also outer space. But like I mentioned, technical part was not something that I could have managed in my later part of my studies. And it's sort of, uh, then I developed interest as I got to know about, oh, the existence of space law and policy. And I think the space industry did find me.
[00:03:37] Andy: So let's talk about India. A few months ago, if you had asked a random person on the street in Europe or America, if they knew anything about the Indian space sector, I'm pretty sure the answer would be no. And I think it's actually true for ESA, by the way. So not that many people know about it, but [00:04:00] now, I guarantee that almost everyone will know that India just successfully landed on the moon. This is really an amazing feat and I myself watched the landing live as it was happening, so really amazing. So how do you think this will affect interest in the space sector in India? I mean, will we see an uptick in the number of people wanting to work in the sector?
[00:04:29] Tanushri: I think, yes, absolutely. There has been an increase in the space sector and the demand towards it. In terms of research and also on understanding what the sector is about. And this is not just within India, it is globally. With respect to India, India has had a very flourishing and a successful space program throughout from its establishment.
So the awareness regarding their programs and missions has increased over the period and especially after Mangalyaan the [00:05:00] Chandrayaan 3 and also the recent Aditya L1 mission. And if we go to say in terms of opportunities what people looked at the space sector was only from a technical or R&D perspective. However, now that is also changing as there is more awareness regarding the existence of space law and policy. And also other I would say segments such as finance, marketing, and there are so many other aspects, insurance.
So, uh, as the number of startups, as the number of companies in this sector increase, there is a high requirement for people in terms of policies, in terms of to aid in law. So there is definitely going to be a very high growth in the entire sector.
[00:05:41] Andy: And do you think that the new space policy that was released, this will, this will [00:06:00] help enable the sector? I mean, I was looking at it earlier and you know, it's, it's enabling really a private sector development in the country.
[00:05:59] Tanushri: Right. absolutely. And it was actually the time when I started working with Skyroot that there was a draft policy that came across and which enabled startups, which pushed for a lot of companies to establish in the space sector. And it sort of, did give a lot of confidence to all the companies in the sector and with this current space policy that has come out it sort of gives a good plan of action on behalf of the government as to how it sees the private sector and how it supports.
It lists down certain roles of each I would say of each authority. And how, and what sort of permits are given in terms of the space sector and which segments I would say in terms of maybe in terms of supporting the launch vehicles, supporting the data [00:07:00] supporting orbital, I would say resources and so on. So it does pan out on every segment of the space sector.
[00:06:58] Andy: Yeah, great. I mean, it's really amazing to see this and just the overall growth in the sector. So I was reading that there's something like four or 500 private space companies now in India.
[00:07:11] Tanushri: Right.
[00:07:11] Andy: And it's the sixth or seventh largest group in the world. Yeah. So it's a really quite amazing growth there.
So many fascinating questions for future space lawyers and policy makers to consider.
[00:07:25] Tanushri: Absolutely. Okay.
[00:07:28] Andy: So let's come back to you. So can you tell us a little bit about what your role was like in Skyroot Aerospace?
[00:07:36] Tanushri: Right. So my role consisted of me being a part of the legal and the business development team. My title was as a legal and a business development associate. And I led the legal matters on the commercial [00:08:00] side. So, the contracts, with respect to the launch or any other contracts, is something that I did look into in my day to day affairs.
And with this, I worked very closely with the R&D team, other technical members various engineers on not just something related to the launch of the satellite, but other matters as well. And as we were a startup there was also fun in working with the marketing team or sort of also giving your own opinions.
[00:08:21] Andy: Yeah, I guess it's something that's kind of cool about working for a startup, right? Is that people have to take on a variety of different roles because the size is quite small.
So what, what does a typical day look like then? I mean, specifically, what were some of the tasks that you were actually doing? Could you talk about some of the particular legal issues that you dealt with?
[00:08:57] Tanushri: So, yes. Uh, the time that I was working [00:09:00] with Skyroot as my role was not just with legal, it was also part of business development. It sort of kept fluctuating. At times I had more on the legal side, at times I had more on the business development side. So a typical day looked like taking up meetings with potential clients.
It included drafting of various contracts and also especially focusing more on how we could also have some sort of suggestions for the policy that were panning out in India and also suggesting globally. Along with that you know, talking with spaceports and otherwise. So my day largely looked more on drafting and negotiating and closing contracts, but along with that, there was a lot of work that included I mean, in terms of sales and so on, on the business development side.
[00:09:40] Andy: Yeah. Okay, great. So let's explore this a bit, um, because you mentioned, you know the [00:09:49] opportunity to comment on the developing space policy for example, or the issues to do with spaceports. And you know, this is something that when people want to know, well, how, how can I get involved in space policy?
Do you think that actually working for industry is one way you can do this by then having the opportunity to be exposed to policy type processes and questions where you have the opportunity to comment?
[00:10:20] Tanushri: yes, I think working in and within the industry also helps in understanding on how a policy should be. Essentially policy is not just certain wordings. It is actually how it shapes up the entire industry. So having knowledge about what is currently required, what is the current status of the industry and what are the further ambitions of not just a particular segment of the sector, but the entire sector as it also is something that [00:11:00] contributes to the economy.
So having a general perspective, having a general idea on how the entire industry works and also working alongside, does help a lot. However, given an opportunity to an individual to work directly on the policy frontier, having some sort of understanding on the industry would definitely help.
[00:11:12] Andy: Absolutely. You started out your career studying for a bachelor's, a bachelor's in law. Can you walk us through your degrees and At what point you started to to study a space law subject?
[00:11:25] Tanushri: right. Uh, so I completed my bachelor's from ILS law college, which is one of India's oldest law colleges. And where I studied quite a lot of procedural as well as substantive laws, and I was also introduced to the subject of [00:12:00] international law. It may come off as a surprise, but I have never studied space law as part of my curriculum.
It was only when I actually…I learned about the existence of space law when I came across a COSPAR document in my second year of my law course. And in my third year is when I got the opportunity to represent and participate in Manfred Lachs Space Law Moot Court Competition which then enabled and gave me a chance to research more, to learn more on space law.
And resources weren't available that easily. So I had the opportunity to visit ISRO’s Library. And the entire atmosphere there was so that I somehow got a fair bit of an idea as to where I wanted to work or how I did want my career to begin with. And I then got an opportunity to work with Skyroot.
So yeah, that is how I came across space law and I continue researching and learning more about it every day.
[00:12:44] Andy: So within your, your work at Skyroot then, I mean, it's, it's a very technical business, the rocket launch business. And you're probably surrounded by engineers and technology people. So how did you find this interface as non technical person? how did you work with engineers and how did you learn what you needed to learn about rockets?
[00:13:08] Tanushri: in fact, the time when I accepted or that I was going through my entire interview process I did somehow have a pressure on will I be able to understand on the technical you know, parameters or not? And we often use this phrase that, you know, “hey, it's easy. It's not rocket science.” But the role that I was undertaking was actually concerned and about rocket science.
So as a completely non technical person, I did have that pressure about to learn [00:14:00] and to understand on the basics of the entire business of the company. The technical clarity on the rocket, the launch vehicle as such. And what we are providing as a service to customers. I believe that also helped me define and give them sound legal and business solutions.
And I think although it was a bit challenging at first, I think working with a great team sort of helped me understand it in an easier manner. And this entire complex subject matter was became very simple and easy for me. So, working with them as such was not tough, but it was challenging at first.
[00:14:17] Andy: Yeah, I think that's, that's an important point to note is the team. I think if you have a good team that are willing to explain some of the technical details to the non technical people, then that's, you know, that's one of the fastest ways I think that you can actually pick this up. And yeah, [00:15:00] certainly I found that in my career.
So let's look at the future. So where can this career path take you? What are some typical career moves a lawyer working for a small launch company could actually make?
[00:14:53] Tanushri: So, I think there have been, and there are a lot of opportunities in this entire sector, and it really depends on an individual's interest. It's just that we do not know of these opportunities. There are opportunities available in working with the government suggesting them in policies like I think defines your role since you are also a member of the UNOOSA, also working with the private sector.
I think continuing with the private sector in itself is also a great opportunity. Along with that there are spaceports coming up, there are a lot of other I would say, venture capitalist companies, and people in terms from the finance sector, there's marketing, there is ample amount of opportunities, and not to miss out on something very important, that is insurance. There are ample amount of opportunities, and it really depends on the individual's interest.
[00:15:47] Andy: So for the space policy enthusiast that's listening to this podcast. What would you recommend as some of the steps that they can take to actually get into this field?
[00:16:00] Tanushri: Right. So for space policy and for space law, what I would suggest is anything that helps you learn and understand on the industry at first is something to like a great start to begin with. And if you have an opportunity to learn about space law or space policy, or even in terms of the sector during your course of college or as a part of your curriculum, that's great. But if you're not having that, I think somewhere learning like self study about this sector is required and is essential. Along with that, participating in different workshops or being a [00:17:00] part of different organizations, working groups, writing research papers will definitely be helpful.
In addition to that, also listening to various space law experts, space policy experts, and listening to them or their podcast will also be very helpful. Uh, I think along with that, or if I was able to summarize this self study about this industry some sort of networking, and participating in various conferences like the IAC that is coming up, or being part of member groups such as the SGAC, IISL, or even Secure World Foundation and many such organizations would definitely be a great way to start your career or develop further interest in this sector.
[00:17:22] Andy: Yeah, I think it's I mean, it's almost never been easier in a way to get information about the sector. Um, there's, there's so many newsletters and podcasts and I mean, using tools like LinkedIn to find information about companies, for example, I think it's pretty easy these days. But so you mentioned the IAC, so you have just won a scholarship award, um, to go and present. So are you actually traveling to Baku for this year's IAC?
[00:17:54] Tanushri: Yes, I am traveling to IAC this year and I will also be presenting my paper. And my paper is something that focuses on the re-entry of objects that are launched into space and whether they would be still termed as space objects and whether there is a duty to return them upon their controlled re entry.
So, it's a very exciting I would say a good opportunity considering the recent circumstances about uncontrolled re entries that have been increasing. So it gives a very good opportunity as to how one can actually work on policies that will not [00:19:00] just affect the current activities, but also how the industry in itself will shape up in upcoming years and how the policy also has to be at par with the technological advancements.
[00:18:49] Andy: Excellent. Well, congratulations on, on achieving that.
Okay, so thanks Tanushri for, um, telling us a little bit about your career. But have you, have you faced any major challenges so far in your career and how did you overcome them?
[00:19:04] Tanushri: Uh, yes, I think since privatization had just begun there were very few startups to begin with at first in India. And like I mentioned, I started working with this company immediately after graduation. So one of the major challenges I faced was drafting off the launch services agreement. And this agreement being very niche, and there were only a handful of companies in the private sector going through this.[00:20:00]
I was given the challenge to draft this. And not having anybody else in the legal team back then was something that did worry me. But I did reach out to a couple of other lawyers. And as I mentioned, this industry is not just about competition, it's more about cooperation. And this is not just on the technical front, but also in the other segments.
And I was lucky enough to actually sort of receive a feedback from them. And that did help me get a clarity on my basics regarding the agreement. And as what I hear from my colleagues today is, this was India's first ever private Launch services agreement. So, uh, although it was challenging, I think it was somewhat a highlight of a very nascent stage of my career.
So it did give me a lot of clarity on how I wanted to move ahead. So I would say it was a challenge, but it was something which gave me a very good opportunity to showcase my skills and work.
[00:20:27] Andy: Yeah, that's excellent. So you've [00:21:00] really been um, a space policy pioneer then for India in um, achieving this launch services agreement. And I think you mentioned something important about the importance of reaching out to other people. And this is something that actually several other guests have mentioned on the show that, you know, the there's obviously a lot of competition in the space sector, but ultimately everyone wants to see the sector win and achieve big things and a certain extent of collaboration and cooperation is needed.
So I think a really important factor for early, early career people is reaching out to people in other companies with similar roles and, you know, finding ways to have an exchange of experience kind of outside the competition. So it's great that you were able to do that.
[00:21:22] Tanushri: Another challenge that I faced during my career was something concerning the very first private launch in the [00:22:00] entire Indian industry.
As we were coming closer to the launch, we had I mean, I, from a legal perspective, had to ensure that we are very sound on matters concerning insurance, concerning our contracts with the customers, concerning any permits that we need from the government, and so on. But again, at this time, I would say that the entire Indian sector somehow you know, while we're talking to the Spaceport regarding permits and so on it was, I would say, a surreal experience.
And what I'd like to also mention in addition to that was I was present at the very launch site. So to somehow see about how things go on from a very close perspective was something that gave me a very good opportunity. So I think if you work correctly on challenges, , it can definitely pan out and show you a very good way on your next career moves or career paths.
[00:22:22] Andy: Well, that is an amazing experience. So thanks for sharing that, Tanushri. So let's wrap up here now. I like to end these interviews by thinking about the big picture. So, you know, we're all just a little cog in the machine of the space economy. But how do you place yourselves within a big picture?
What's, what's the overall strategic direction that you're working towards?
[00:22:47] Tanushri: Right. Um, so like I mentioned while I was working with the previous organization, I did have a part to play in terms of how we could boost the Indian sector in terms of, or the launch segment at first. And I think no matter on what role that you play in the industry, it does have a larger impact.
So, ultimately if you do look at the space sector and the economy as such with the growth of privatization, that also is concerned regarding how we are sound on the policies as it structures our further activities. And I think we are at a time when the technology is also developing and this essentially is, I would say, I would say that it is a very important stage in the entire sector since the time space outer space activities did begin to sort of have a clarity and be at par with what further technological advancements could be.
If we do take a look at the history of space law, space law has always been very proactive. We've had treaties before reaching on moon, before conducting space mining activities. So I would say if we continue doing so it would rather be very helpful. Because no matter how big or small an organization is, the moment it does sort of conduct any space activity, the impact is going to be globally.
Um, so if we are able to focus on something as simple as sustainability as important topics such as space debris or the delimitation of air space and outer space to begin with. I think there are multiple challenges, but if we do start working on them this would really turn this entire sector into a big, I would say part of the economy.
[00:24:36] Andy: Excellent. Well, thank you for sharing that thought, Tanushri. Uh, really inspiring to hear. So thank you very much for your time on this podcast. It was a pleasure to talk to you and I wish you all the greatest success.
[00:24:50] Tanushri: Thanks a lot, Andrew. It was great to have this conversation with you, and I hope that I'm able to provide some insight to people who are interested in space law and policy.
And I'd also like to mention that often I come across this question about whether there is any requirement of someone to have a legal background if they're interested in space policy as such. But I think having just a great or a good idea about, um, the space industry and maybe a fair share and understanding a bit on law, but not having a degree should be good to begin with. So, yeah, I hope that this was helpful for them.
[00:25:32] Andy: Excellent. That is, that is very helpful. So there are many, many different options that we can take.
[00:25:37] Tanushri: Absolutely. ​
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Shownotes
Title: Launch a space policy career with a small launcher company: Tanushri Joshi.
Bio: Tanushri is a lawyer from India currently employed as Senior Legal and Business Development Manager at HEX20, an innovative smallsat company providing customized products and services for the CubeSat and SmallSat markets globally. She previously worked as a Legal and Business Development Associate for Skyroot Aerospace–a private newspace launch vehicle company in India. Prior to Skyroot, she completed a number of trainee legal positions in law firms in India, covering a range of IP and private law subjects. She completed her Bachelors from ILS Law College, Pune and is a Gold Medalist in Law from Pune University (2021). She is a member of the International Institute of Space Law (IISL) Working Group on Light Pollution of the Night Sky From a Space Law Perspective and continues to work on various research papers related to space law and policy.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanushrijoshi/
Disclaimer: All guests are talking in their personal capacity and are not representing any official position of their former or current employing organization.
Episode Summary:
In this episode of the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast, Andy Williams, Director of Science in Space, sits down with Tanushri Joshi, Senior Legal and Business Development Manager at HEX20, an Australian smallsat firm. At the time of recording, Tanushri has just finished a post at an Indian rocket company - Skyroot Aerospace. Tanushri shares her career journey in the emerging field of space policy in India, reveals the challenges and opportunities of working in a technical industry as a non-technical person, and discusses India's rapid growth in the space sector. The conversation also covers the influence of policy on the space sector, touches on the changing dynamics and collaborative nature of the industry, and offers advice for aspiring space policy enthusiasts. Tune in for an inspiring inside look into the world of space policy.
Episode guide:
00:05 Introduction to the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast
01:16 Interview with Tanushri: Journey to Skyroute
03:33 The Rise of the Indian Space Sector
05:49 The Impact of New Space Policy in India
07:37 Tanushri's Role at Skyroute Aerospace
09:48 The Intersection of Industry and Space Policy
11:17 Tanushri's Educational Background and Introduction to Space Law
19:05 Challenges and Triumphs in Tanushri's Career
22:42 Tanushri's Vision for the Future of the Space Sector
25:54 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Links and Resources:
Skyroot Aerospace: https://skyroot.in/
HEX20: https://hex20.com.au/
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO): https://www.isro.gov.in/
ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission (Mangalyaan): https://www.isro.gov.in/MarsOrbiterMissionSpacecraft.html
Chandrayaan-3 Lunar Mission: https://www.isro.gov.in/Chandrayaan3_Details.html
Aditya-L1 Mission: https://www.isro.gov.in/Aditya_L1.html
Indian Space Policy 2023: https://www.isro.gov.in/IndiaSpacePolicy.html
ILS Law College, Pune, India: https://ilslaw.edu/
COSPAR: https://cosparhq.cnes.fr/
Manfred Lachs Space Law Moot Court Competition: https://www.esa.int/About_Us/ECSL_-_European_Centre_for_Space_Law/Manfred_Lachs_Space_Law_Moot_Court_Competition
Space Generation Advisory Council (SGAC). https://spacegeneration.org/
International Institute of Space Law (IISL): https://iisl.space/
International Astronautical Congress (IAC): https://www.iafastro.org/events/iac/
Tanushri’s paper at IAC: https://swfound.org/media/207715/tanushri_iac-23-e7-1-12-x77008.pdf
Secure World Foundation: https://swfound.org/
