SPP1 - Jessica West
Transcript
[00:00:00] Andy: Hello, space policy enthusiasts Welcome to the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast. My name is Andy Williams and I'm the Director of Science in Space, a niche space policy consultancy firm. On this podcast, we'll talk to leading space policy experts and hear their informative and inspirational career stories to help you, the listener, learn about the different career paths in space policy and the skills you need to be successful.
If you enjoy this podcast, please help us by leaving a five star rating on your favorite podcast platform and sign up for more information and career resources at www. scienceinspace.co.uk. One final note before we begin, all guests are talking in their personal capacity and are [00:01:00] not representing any official position of their former or current employing organization.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not legal or investment advice.
Our guest today is Dr. Jessica West. Jessica is a senior fellow at the Centre for International Governance Innovation and a senior researcher at Project Ploughshares, a Canadian peace and security research institute where she focuses on technology, security and governance in outer space.
Welcome to the Space Policy Pioneers podcast, Jessica.
[00:01:35] Jessica: Hi, thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:37] Andy: So Jessica, you started out your career working in international development for the Canadian government in Global Affairs Canada. But then you got a role as Program Manager at Project Ploughshares, working with the Space Security Index. So, to kick us off could you briefly introduce [00:02:00] Project Ploughshares, and then tell us if this is a role that you specifically sought out, or was it a serendipitous opportunity?
Were you specifically looking for a career in space?
[00:02:13] Jessica: That is a great way to kick it off. Project Ploughshares is a Canadian peace and disarmament research institute. We're located in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. I am incredibly lucky to work here. Twice, actually. As an organization, we focus on a broad range of peace and arms control issues from nuclear disarmament and ethical and legal concerns with artificial intelligence and arms exports to my work, which is outer space security. That's a topic that we have worked on for more than 20 years. And just before the show, I quickly did some calculations in my head, and I've been the lead of that work for about 12 of those years. And that's pretty hard to believe. How did I get here?
I'm going to land on the answer of [00:03:00] serendipitous. I did not seek out a career in the space industry, or on space policy. I did seek out a career with Project Ploughshares. At the time I was working at global affairs, Canada whether or not it was a good decision to leave the government for the NGO sector is a topic for another day.
But I was really keen to work for this organization. I was familiar with what they did through my undergrad and my master's program. And all of a sudden there was an opening for someone to run the space security index project, which I had never heard of and I went for it. Not just for the organization but because at the time space policy, space security were new topics.
And I thought it was a wonderful opportunity to be able to shape a field in some ways from the ground up. So I guess what I really wanted to be was a space pioneer, so to speak. Now, when I got the interview, it didn't go well. I was told that more than 100 people had applied for the position, but there were no ideal [00:04:00] candidates, so they were going for a second best option.
I guess I turned out to be second best. The rest is history. But I feel incredibly lucky to have things turned out the way they did.
[00:04:11] Andy: So could you explain a little bit about the Space Security Index? So what is it and what does it do?
[00:04:18] Jessica: Yeah, we don't run the Space Security Index anymore. We did, I think, about 16 publications of that project. It was initiated at a time when conversations about Space weaponization were heating up here in Canada in the context of ballistic missile defense programs and it was really hard to talk about.
And so the Canadian government along with McGill University, Project Ploughshares in Canada, and other partners came together to produce a comprehensive assessment of, I think it was 17 indicators of space security that looked at it broadly from an environmental and economic perspective to policy, [00:05:00] military activities, technology, and to put those pieces in conversation with one another. It was a massive undertaking every single year and eventually, space outgrew us, I would say. What is happening today in outer space is almost inconceivable from when I first started working on this project in 2005.
And I think the ability to track everything that's happening in a single year all around the world, it just became too much.
[00:05:30] Andy: Okay. So we're going to come back to that later on about what a growing trend means for space governance, but let's stick to your career path at the moment. So after you joined Ploughshares at the start, what happened after that? Could you walk us through your career development and how you ended up doing a PhD and then continuing in the space security field?
[00:05:53] Jessica: Yes, so after about three years with Project Ploughshares running the Space Security Index, I [00:06:00] left to pursue a PhD in Global Governance and International Security here in Waterloo at the Balsillie School of International Affairs. Not unlike my job at Plowshares, I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to study at the time.
I would not say that's good advice for anyone. Please don't follow my lead. And the path became one again of serendipity. What I did know was that I wanted to continue doing policy research, which was becoming more professionalized, even within the NGO arena. So PhD seemed helpful. We can come back to this if you want.
Looking back, I'm not sure I would necessarily advise that approach to others. I was keen to expand some of the work I was doing to think about security and more human approaches once again. I didn't really want to move cause I had a mortgage and it was 2008, so you can fill in the rest of that picture and the Balsillie school is brand new.
And so once again, I was drawn to the opportunity to make an impact on a newly emerging program. And it was a terrific experience. I didn't want to leave [00:07:00] Ploughshares per se, but I did feel that I had an opportunity to contribute more by furthering my own education.
[00:07:08] Andy: So your PhD subject wasn't actually a space subject. So how did that happen? And then how did you then go on to kind of integrate your PhD into your work?
[00:07:21] Jessica: Yeah, so at one point, I was going to focus my PhD dissertation on space governance. I didn't have great options for supervision at the time. Again, this was circa 2009, 2010. It was still a pretty obscure field. And I wasn't in an institution that specialized in it. I also tend to be a big picture thinker. Some might say too big. My supervisor might say too big. And what I ended up doing was looking at resilience as a national security strategy. And I compared it to various modes of containment, including public health. So it seems like a far cry from space. I don't think it is. Resilience is [00:08:00] obviously one of those keywords that is very much in vogue. I said very much, but you know, kind of, uh, we talk about resilience a lot in space security. So I think it was relevant, but it gave me an opportunity to expand my own long term view on national defense, international security, and the strategies that we use to pursue those objectives. And I think that is what I have been able to bring back to my work at Project Ploughshares, working on space security.
I did come back to the same job. So again we can talk about choices. Was a PhD worth it? I love my job. I jumped at the opportunity to come back to work on outer space security once again. But I didn't come back the same person. I brought with me this more critical and broader view of security and of governance, a strong background in comparative studies an ability to learn insights from other fields and other domains, which I think is really helpful in outer space.[00:09:00]
And in more recent years, I've been able to incorporate my passion and my background for the human side of security and feminist approaches to security into the space theme of my work. So overall I love where I've ended up. I don't think it's a traditional path. It's certainly not a model to follow, but I think it also speaks to the fact that there's a lot of different ways we can find ourselves working in this community, in this field, and I think that is part of what makes it so special.
[00:09:30] Andy: Yeah, absolutely. So I think you, you've essentially just listed off all the pros of doing a PhD and I know that this is a subject that many people wrestle with actually, a kind of general question, you know, should I do a PhD in order to improve my chances of getting into a space policy field in whatever way? I mean, did you have any doubts at the time or list of cons you could share?
[00:09:57] Jessica: I was given a list of cons by one of [00:10:00] my referees to the program who said: sure, absolutely I will be a reference, I will advocate for you to be admitted to the program, but please think carefully about this. And what he pointed out to me was lost income, so opportunity cost of doing a degree.
Mind you, I had fairly good funding with my PhD. So I would say, don't go that route if you don't have fairly good financial support. It is a job and it should be treated as a job. The fact that if I were interested in academia, there weren't necessarily a lot of job opportunities. But I knew I wanted to stay in the policy field.
And so that was less of a concern for me. And I'm sure there were others. I think I meet a lot of people who ask me about a Ph. D. And often it's, it seems to be an answer to being lost and not knowing what to do. And I don't think it's a good answer to that problem. But for people who do know what they want to work on, who have an area of knowledge that they really want to build within themselves, but [00:11:00] also to contribute to it can be valuable.
Again, if you treat it like a job, if you have adequate funding and respect at the institution you're with but I don't think it's a surefire way into the policy field. I was already in the policy field. And I work with a lot of amazing people who do not have PhDs. So it's not a one size fits all.
[00:11:21] Andy: Yeah. I think that's some good advice. Thanks. Yeah, it's interesting what you said about, when you started the fact that it's it, the space topic wasn't so prevalent at that time. And I actually experienced that myself, starting my PhD in 2006 and initially proposing a space related subject and not getting any traction in my university just because there wasn't anyone there that dealt with it. And it was seen as something quite novel.
And I think that's something that's definitely changing now, is that there's many university departments all around the world who are starting to introduce specialties in various space topics just as the space sector is [00:12:00] growing. So I think that's a good sign.
[00:12:02] Jessica: Yeah. I was told it was too “niche”. And so you don't want to pigeonhole yourself. I had that with quite a few different topics, feminism as well. I think space is not niche, space is everywhere.
[00:12:14] Andy: Yeah. So let's talk about space security and space governance. Most of our listeners are likely familiar to some extent with, The System of International Space Governance, talking about the the United Nations Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space, or COPUOS, and this is under the UN General Assembly fourth committee, and this is fostering peaceful cooperation on matters of space sustainability, exploration, resource extraction, dark and quiet skies, and trying to enhance the societal benefits of space.
And then we have the International Telecommunications Union, or the ITU, and this is dealing with the assignment of radio spectrum to Earth and space [00:13:00] systems and geostationary orbital slots. And in fact, we've had many guests already on the podcast that have covered aspects of these topics. But I would say that there is probably less familiarity with the role of the UN First Committee, which deals with disarmament and international security and the recently established open ended working group on reducing space threats. So could you explain to our listeners what is going on under this committee in terms of space governance and why it is important?
[00:13:36] Jessica: Yeah, in many ways, I mean, I think it's not called the First Committee for nothing. It's a very important committee. And it deals with the peace and arms control side of space governance. I think in many ways, it's the flip side of the coin when it comes to COPUOS, the peaceful use and the non peaceful use.
That's probably oversimplified. It's not necessarily fair, but they get treated that way within the UN system. So issues [00:14:00] either fall under COPUOS or they fall under First Committee on the peace and arms control side and the less peaceful uses of outer space. The body has been wrestling, arguing, grappling with issues related to arms control and outer space for more than 40 years now. Pretty much we've been having the same debates during that entire time. The topic falls under what is known as PAROS, Prevention of an Arms Race in Outer Space, which was a topic initiated on the United Nations agenda in response to perceived gaps in the Outer Space Treaty which does not have a very robust arms control component to it aside from the very important element of banning nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction in space.
So there was a need viewed or seen in the late 1970s, early 1980s that we wanted to avoid an arms race in space, we wanted to avoid weapons in space.[00:15:00] I think we still have that objective today, but how we do that is hotly contested. Some states want to have a new treaty. That would legally ban weapons and the use of force in outer space.
That initiative is largely spearheaded by Russia and China. Other states say, yep, we don't really think that there are gaps in law. We just need to apply existing laws better. They would prefer to work on norms of behavior in outer space and whether two sides have traditionally come together has been on transparency and confidence building measures, ways to make what we do in outer space more open and stable. And to have conversations about it. The open ended working group was really an effort to get around this stalemate because we literally have had the same resolutions for decades within the United Nations and that inability to progress means that space technology is rapidly advancing but the diplomatic side, the governance side has been [00:16:00] stuck. And so the United Kingdom initiated a new approach focused on norms of responsible behaviors. The goal here was to think about, well, the old adage, ‘it's not what you have, but how you use it’ might sort of be the guiding spirit of that meeting.
So instead of focusing on technical capabilities and banning things the goal was to have conversations about how to use technology, how to use capabilities in ways that states collectively view as responsible. So a number of the topics covered had to do with the production of space debris not creating space debris as being responsible and, intentionally creating it as being less responsible. Having better communications capacities, prior notification of activities so that you don't cause undue worry among operators around you because they think you're doing something weird. They think you're getting too close. They're just not sure what you're [00:17:00] doing. We also talked a lot about civilian protection.
And so what happens if there's interference with satellite systems that have critical services for civilians all around the world? Are there ways that we can minimize harm to people? It was, I think the broadest and most detailed discussion on space security that I have been witness to in the United Nations ever.
I think it brought to the table a whole lot of new issues that show promise for finding agreement for having progress on governance for mitigating potential harmful effects of some military activities in space. And it also brought to the table new actors organizations like mine and secure world foundation.
We were able to be there to participate. So you had civil society voices, commercial operators, not many, not many ended up joining, but the door was open and certainly there were [00:18:00] consultations. We heard from International Committee of the Red Cross. And so you had another international view rooted in international humanitarian law, and you had a lot of states who normally don't participate in these conversations, it really opened up the door. Did that make it easy to come to an agreement? No. So, as as viewers might know, that process ended without a substantive agreement on an outcome document or even a procedural document. But what it did do is it set the stage for ongoing conversations.
Those will pick up in 2025 with a narrower focus on some of the topics that states really rallied around and see an opportunity for progress. I'll stop talking. I feel like I've been rambling. I know it's niche but First Committee and the open ended working group and these discussions at the United Nations really are something that I spend a lot of time working on.
And I'm so proud of the work and the progress that the international community has [00:19:00] achieved in the last few years.
[00:19:03] Andy: Thanks for that explanation. And just to say, and I'll put these in the show notes, but I really appreciated some of the articles that you wrote about this process. I think it's really shining a light on a different aspect of space governance. And it's one that's touching more the fundamental national interests of states in a way that's not so much done at COPUOS.
Because often at COPUOS things that are a bit more optimistic and positive. You're talking about societal benefits and Earth observation and kind of sharing space data and planetary defense. So, yeah, it's a really fascinating forum. So,
[00:19:41] Jessica: And I would add, you know, then the work at First Committee is making sure that growing military competition, strategic instability, potentially harmful uses of emerging technology don't interfere with all of those benefits. And so I guess that's where you see the two sides of the coin approach to space [00:20:00] governance.
[00:20:03] Andy: so the listeners of this podcast are generally people who are interested about careers in space policy. So could you tell us a little bit about your work that you've done to support these various projects.
[00:20:18] Jessica: Yeah I've done a lot of research and specifically for the arms control and norms files that involved. Now, going back to some of my academic capabilities and looking at what have we done in other domains that has worked what hasn't worked, how have some of the challenges that we face when it comes to arms control in space, such as defining a weapon or knowing what a weapon looks like, verifying or having confidence in implementation of agreements.
What does that look like elsewhere? How have those challenges been faced? Because those aren't unique problems to the space domain. These are largely political problems with some technical elements to [00:21:00] them. But I think we can learn a lot from our experiences elsewhere.
And certainly a lot of the diplomats who are on this file have also learned a lot from those other areas. And so I think that's been a really productive contribution. And I think we spent a lot of time doing basic fact sheet reporting type work as well. Outer space diplomacy is not the most accessible area; not all States have huge diplomatic cores that they can dedicate to a single topic. Oftentimes, you have one person who is in charge of many different files. And I think being able to explain key concepts, explain why specific approaches to arms control might be more preferable in certain circumstances than others; highlight the value of the topic itself is a really big contribution. And I think some of the highlights of my career have been hearing from people, hearing from [00:22:00] diplomats who have, you know, used that work themselves in ways that have enabled their countries to better engage on this topic. Side events and panels are another great way of contributing of engaging in capacity building, if you will,
[00:22:14] Andy: So you've attended some of these side events at the UN session?
[00:22:18] Jessica: Yes, yes, we used to always have them with the Space Security Index. I would say in recent years, I've been really lucky to be able to join in events that have been organized by others, shoutout UNIDIR, Secure World Foundation. They always have fantastic events. Countries also have sponsored great ones. I think the United States sponsored one that I was able to participate in on the open ended working group a few years ago.
I guess I, I hope this theme of community is really coming out. I think the way that I work on this topic is through community. And our community includes diplomats, it includes other NGOs, it includes academics, it includes commercial sector, and being able to produce materials that can inform [00:23:00] different perspectives that can contribute to diplomatic capacity, knowledge capacity building but also shared understanding across different perspectives.
I think that's where I like to see myself contributing. I hope I'm having a positive impact.
[00:23:14] Andy: Yes, you've mentioned a lot about doing research and synthesizing understanding for diplomats. So that's a pretty core skill, but what are some of the other skills that you need to be successful in this work?
[00:23:29] Jessica: You know, it's related to research and I don't want to just say research. This is a conversation we've had with some of our interns at Project Ploughshares in recent years, but I think a key skill today is, I don't really know what to call it…maybe information competence? The ability to discern good from bad information, to evaluate sources, to ask critical questions, and to dig and really be able to piece together a picture of what's happening. I think that today's information environment is overwhelming and it's chaotic.
And especially [00:24:00] with a topic like space, there's a lot of misinformation out there, vilification, self inflation, and plain old confusion. And so I think the ability to do good research and to advise really requires competence to be able to cut through that noise to avoid sort of knee jerk reaction to not give in to wanting to be I guess flashy in some ways but instead to be able to find truth and if not truth, at least technical information that cuts through some of the politicization of this field.
I think being able to work as part of a community is part of that process. But I think community work really involves an ability to listen and empathize with other perspectives. I think that's essential to both research, advising, but also having influence and being able to explain complex topics in clear ways.
I think that's important to being heard. Otherwise people will [00:25:00] tune out if they don't understand what you're talking about. So I think it's a lot of soft skills. I don't come to this field with a lot of technical background and expertise, although I have gleaned a lot over the years.
And, you know, another shout out to people like Laura Grego, who did such a wonderful job of explaining physics and outer space and space security to people like me. But it's the soft skills can really have a hard impact in a positive way.
[00:25:24] Andy: Yeah, thanks. I think that's a really nice example. Yeah. And what you said, the importance of the ability to to be able to summarize a complex topic in an understandable and digestible way. That's a kind of core space policy skill in a way. And I think that repeats itself in many different aspects of the space policy domain.
So on this podcast, we have spoken to experts in government space policy roles, in industry, and also in academia. And one of the topics I'm quite interested to [00:26:00] explore is the role of thinking about space policy versus deciding in space policy. You know, in, in think tanks and in academia, typically you are studying subjects in great detail, and you're contributing to a policy landscape by sharing this knowledge and engaging with policymakers in the way that you've just described.
And this is a important contribution, but you're not the ones in the driving seats, you're not deciding policy But then on the other hand, if you work in government, you could have the role to be the one that's actually creating policies for a space agency, or, to do the work on developing national policy.
So this is more of the doing space policy. Yeah, I'd just like to get your thoughts on how do you feel about this divide in terms of how your work has impact? Or could you give advice to someone considering a role in space policy on, how to [00:27:00] think about that?
[00:27:01] Jessica: Yeah I'm a thinker and so I'm happy to be labeled on the thinking side of things. You know, ideally these two go together, the thinking and the deciding. And I think when we have them together, that's a sign of a really good industry. I think we do it pretty well in space including here in Canada.
And I think when you see policy not working so well it's because those pieces aren't engaging very well. We're talking about thinking and I'm talking about thinking. My job is about more than thinking. I think it's also the ability to reach out to and to influence and to work with the deciders in ways that respect our mutual roles. And I think here again words like respect and empathy are really important for being able to bring the thinking or the research part of policy to the decision making part. And that's where advocacy also comes in.
Another part of my job is public awareness. I see civil society often as the linchpin between the [00:28:00] public and the decision makers, as you called them. And I think that a key part of what civil society does is to empower the so-called deciders by helping to raise public awareness about why issues are important. Why does outer space matter? Why does it matter that we don't pollute outer space? Why does it matter that we maintain outer space as a peaceful domain for everyone to use?
Why does it matter that we go to the moon? It's hard to rally support within government if you don't have support within the public. And I think that's maybe a third avenue of this work and a key part of how the thinkers and the deciders are dependent on one another. So I guess, in terms of advice, I would say, don't look down on the research and advocacy sides of policy work. They really do leave a lot of room for participating in the decision making process. Because it's always a process, nothing is just suddenly decided [00:29:00]. Often we, in civil society, I think we also serve as the institutional memory and the continuity of values and objectives for decision making bodies in government, at least in Canadian government people often rotate around quite quickly. And then part of my role is often to explain what Canada has been doing or explain how a section of space policy has evolved over the years and where we're going. So overall, I think as any adult could tell you, being the decider is often overrated.
And I think being the thinker and helping the decider decide can be really valuable. But I really also appreciate the role that our work plays in that public awareness component.
[00:29:38] Andy: Yeah, that's great. And I think you really nicely encapsulated the impact there in terms of being this kind of institutional memory, to bridge the gap between the sort of messy policymaking process and all the people in government that are rotating out constantly.
[00:29:56] Jessica: Yeah. And new governments that come in..,
[00:29:58] Andy: Yeah. Yeah. And [00:30:00] from my own experience, I had a quite a long career in NATO where I was acting in an advisory role and you know, when I was a bit younger, I always had this kind of feeling that it wasn't really having much impact and I desired to be the one that was in more of the deciding role.
And then now where I actually have a little bit of that role at COPUOS, in terms of the subject of dark and quiet skies, and you realize that it's actually really difficult. And it's the process is so messy. And then, I've realized how much that I actually depend on the work of academia and the role of think tanks in terms of educating myself on subjects and developing this broader perspective about the space landscape.
So it's, yeah, it's absolutely critical. And actually some of your work and some of your colleagues work, I've used recently to understand this process of norms and how they form and see if I can apply that same concept in [00:31:00] my work. So thank you.
[00:31:01] Jessica: oh, you're welcome. But I think it's important to have these kinds of conversations like the one we're having, because some people who only work on the thinking side of policy ever don't necessarily empathize very well with the decision makers. It can be easy to say what?
Why didn't you do it this way? Or why aren't you doing more? Why aren't you doing better? Why aren't you aiming higher? And I think the reality is that, decision makers are often in constrained situations. So my sense is that the space field is filled with people that are all trying to do their best in the role they have with the resources they have.
And I think progress really requires being able to work together and understand the constraints that others face and the perspectives that they're looking at a problem with. It's not always the same as mine. So I think you probably bring a lot of that to your job now that you're more of a decision making role.
[00:31:51] Andy: So, I mean, you've sketched out this work in quite a kind of optimistic way so far. I was wondering if you faced any [00:32:00] challenges in your work and could you share how you overcame them?
[00:32:05] Jessica: Yes, when I first started out it was a little intimidating. I was incredibly privileged because through Project Ploughshares and the relationships they had I got access to phenomenal conferences and panels dealing with space security, but it was a time when it was very military in nature.
I would say a lot of military voices in the room, older and male and I was quite young and I sound quite young and I look even younger. And of course, being a woman and also in civil society it's a little intimidating at points in time to speak up. And I think what got me through that was really good mentorship and I've been doing a lot of shutouts, but I think those are important.
I think it's important to recognize the people that have helped us along the way. And I've been lucky to have a wonderful network of other women working in [00:33:00] space who gave me a lot of good advice. And I remember Teresa Hitchens in particular when I was just starting out and she would give advice on what it was like for her when she was a baby girl, as she would say, working in the defense news industry, and her advice was to speak up!
Raise your hand, wear bright colors, stand out! Don't shrink back because you don't fit in. And I still struggle with that a little bit. Again, I'm more of a thinker, so I tend to think of my questions and contributions after the fact more than on the spot, but I think it was great advice.
[00:33:32] Andy: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's something that I experienced that myself going into the defense sector, but not being in the military, feeling about a place and I've also heard people relate the same experience in the space sector. If you're not an engineer, or a scientist you can't really talk the talk in the same way. And yeah, I think you're right. You just have to speak out and I think ask for support and get [00:34:00] mentorship. That's really, really critical in early on in someone's career.
[00:34:04] Jessica: But I think to the community was much more welcoming than I was expecting. So some of it was my own perceptions about perhaps not fitting in. And I think just talking to people really helped as well. There's a lot of wonderful people in this community, some of whom have very opposing views to my own, but I deeply respect their work.
I deeply respect them as people. And I think that was also a key part of overcoming my own imposter syndrome or feeling like I didn't belong was just getting to know people as people. And and again, understanding that I think most people come to events, come to their work with good intentions.
And we're all here to learn from one another. But definitely mentorship, find mentors, reach out to people. Don't be afraid to ask and if you're sitting alone in a conference room, go up and say hi to the other person sitting alone in the conference room.
[00:34:56] Andy: Yeah. Great advice. You've already shared some [00:35:00] excellent advice to the space policy enthusiasts listening to the podcast, but is there anything else that you would like to share for people that that are just starting along this career path?
[00:35:09] Jessica: Yeah, I was thinking about this question, and I'm going to give people the same advice that I gave recently to someone who's organizing an economic space sector meeting for Ontario, and that is that space is not just about space. I think sometimes people say, well, I don't do space. You know, space is about technology, it's about people, ethics, culture, social and economic development, gender, the past, the future. So I think there's a lot of different voices that need to come to this field for us to continue to evolve, to strengthen, to move into a better future. So I would say, I know we say it a lot, but space is for everyone.
But not having a space background, sometimes you're bringing something special to the field. So I think keeping that in mind is important. But also, space is not just about things in space. It's not just about space [00:36:00] companies. So I think there are tremendous opportunities in the vastly growing commercial space industry.
But this industry itself, it's not just about rocket launchers and satellites. I think space data is incredibly undervalued and really it's data. It's information. That's where a lot of the value in space lies. Today's world, big data is space data. And of course artificial intelligence is in the news, but a lot of that draws on big data.
So I think there's a lot of opportunities to think about how we can use the incredible amounts of data that we're gathering every single day from outer space better. And that can be for government, that can be for business purposes, that can be for social objectives. So I think the MIT space enabled initiative is a really good example about how we can think more broadly about space and what it means to work in the space field. So I would encourage people to think about that. Think about how you might use space data in your own work or how you might bring it[00:37:00] to other objectives, to other people, to other fields. So think more broadly. And you know, everyone says reach out. This might be a bit of a hard advice, but I want to share it because I have been thinking about it.
I think sometimes you have to go where the jobs are so that you can be part of communities. I've used that word community a lot. Some communities are virtual. But I think sometimes it can be really be helpful to physically be in a place where there's a collection of people working on the same things that you want to work on.
And I say that as someone who lives in a city that does not have a big space industry. But I did also live and work in Ottawa for a long time and, my, my experience is trying to work in Ottawa versus trying to work in Waterloo are vastly different. And I think it was a lot easier being in Ottawa and and being in a place where there are lots of people working on policy if you wanted a policy job. So vastly separate from my space data point. But you know, I think that's an important thing to be said.
[00:37:59] Andy: Yeah, absolutely.[00:38:00] And I see people are taking initiative on that now and actually setting up local space meets and regional space organizations. And then you have things like the Space Generation Advisory Council that has its own kind of local groups.
[00:38:15] Jessica: Yeah. If anyone wants to meet up in Waterloo I'm free.
[00:38:19] Andy: We will put your LinkedIn bio in the show notes so people can connect. So Jessica it's been really great to talk to you and thank you so much for sharing all your advice and your perspectives on space governance. Let's end with a kind of big picture view. So what is your big picture and where do you see yourself as a part of the space sector?
[00:38:43] Jessica: You know, my big picture is peace and outer space. I think peace is really the bedrock of our ability to use outer space. And for those uses to benefit everybody peace and cooperation, those are sometimes seen as sort of fluffy words[00:39:00] but they're real things and they require constant nurturing. It's not enough to plunk them down in treaties and call it a day. I think the ability to maintain peaceful use of outer space, to maintain an outer space environment that benefits everyone, that takes a community, that word again. It takes commitment. It takes constant actions, both big and small.
And so I try to see my work as part of this collective effort. I hope it makes a difference. It might be on the small end of things. But small things can lead to bigger things. And I think I just try to be a voice to remind people of the need to continue to nurture what we have and not take it for granted. We might have peace now, but if we don't take steps to protect it and to nurture it and to nurture one another, we could easily lose it.
[00:39:50] Andy: Thanks for sharing that. That is a great perspective and yes to peace.
[00:39:54] Jessica: I know, who doesn't like peace?
[00:39:55] Andy: Jessica, it's been great to talk to you. [00:40:00] Thank you so much for your time.
[00:40:02] Jessica: Thank you. And I can't wait to listen to the other podcasts.
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Shownotes
Title: Space Security and an NGO Space Policy Career, with Jessica West
Bio: Jessica leads research to advance peace and security in outer space through a humanitarian focus on space for all and benefits to people and the planet. As part of this work, she interacts regularly with key United Nations bodies tasked with space security and space safety issues. Related research interests include approaches to peace and disarmament rooted in humanitarian protection and gender perspectives, as well as the impact of new technologies on space security such as cyber connectivity and artificial intelligence. Jessica holds a PhD in global governance from the Balsillie School of International Affairs where her work focused on linkages between resilience, national security, and public health. She currently holds roles as a Research Fellow at the Kindred Credit Union Centre for Peace Advancement, and a Senior Fellow at the Centre for International Governance Innovation (CIGI).
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-west-9733b31a2/
Disclaimer: All guests are talking in their personal capacity and are not representing any official position of their former or current employing organization.
Episode Summary:
In this episode of the Space Policy Pioneers Podcast, host Andy Williams, Director of Science in Space, talks with Dr. Jessica West, a senior researcher at Project Ploughshares and senior fellow at the Centre for International Governance Innovation. They explore Jessica's distinguished career in the space policy field, from her initial role in international development to her current contributions to space security. Jessica shares insights on the challenges she faced starting out in a heavily military-dominated profession, the importance of community, and the breadth of opportunities in the space sector -- not just in engineering or scientific roles but in policy and advocacy as well. They cover the complexities and nuances of space governance within UN committees, the value of peace in outer space, and the role of think tanks in influencing policy decisions.
01:12 Meet Our Guest: Dr. Jessica West
01:37 Jessica's Career Journey: From International Development to Space Policy
01:55 Understanding Project Ploughshares and the Space Security Index
02:52 The Role of Serendipity in Career Paths
03:31 The Evolution of Space Policy and Security
03:48 The Challenges and Triumphs of a Career in Space Policy
04:07 The Importance of Space Security Index
05:33 Career Development and Pursuing a PhD
09:21 The Value of a PhD in the Space Policy Field
13:00 Understanding the Role of the UN First Committee in Space Governance
19:51 The Importance of Research and Advocacy in Space Policy
25:33 The Role of Think Tanks and Academia in Space Policy
31:41 Overcoming Challenges in the Space Policy Field
38:26 Conclusion: The Importance of Peace in Outer Space
Links and Resources
Project Ploughshares: https://www.ploughshares.ca/
Space Security Index: https://spacesecurityindex.org/
PhD Programme in Global Governance: https://uwaterloo.ca/graduate-studies-academic-calendar/arts/global-governance/doctor-philosophy-phd-global-governance
UN COPUOS: https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/copuos/index.html
ITU https://www.itu.int/en/mediacentre/backgrounders/Pages/Regulation-of-Satellite-Systems.aspx
https://www.itu.int/hub/2021/11/managing-radio-frequency-spectrum-amid-a-new-space-race/
UN Disarmament and International Security (First Committee) https://www.un.org/en/ga/first/index.shtml
Open Ended Working Group: https://meetings.unoda.org/open-ended-working-group-on-reducing-space-threats-2022
Summary Ploughshares Report from Jessica: https://www.ploughshares.ca/reports/the-open-ended-working-group-on-reducing-space-threats-final-recap
Article in CIGIOnline by Jessica: https://www.cigionline.org/articles/until-now-humans-have-been-lucky-in-space-it-wont-last-forever/.
Article by Jessica and another Space Policy Pioneer guest, Laura Delgado Lopez, https://www.cigionline.org/publications/clearing-the-fog-the-grey-zones-of-space-governance/
Opinion piece in SpaceWatch Global by Jessica: https://spacewatch.global/2023/12/spacewatchgl-opinion-crafting-new-solutions-to-avert-an-arms-race-in-outer-space/
United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research, UNIDIR: https://unidir.org/
Secure World Foundation, SWF https://swfound.org/
Laura Grego: https://www.ucsusa.org/about/people/laura-grego ; https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauragrego/
Teresa Hitchens: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theresa-hitchens-2b0883107/
Space Generation Advisory Council: https://spacegeneration.org/
SM notes
* The impact of NGO research and advocacy in supporting the policy ecosystem
* Thinking versus deciding in policy
* To do or not do PhD to pursue a career in policy
* Space security in space governance
* Fitting in and speaking out in the space sector